I am struggling and need you

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Lacewing
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Lacewing » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:29 am

Thanks for your most thoughtful response Thomascbk! Truly a delight to read.
Thomascbk wrote: I would not mind going on my own; I like to be alone (I am still growing up and I have spent weeks all alone in the holidays and I learned how to connect with myself (or Im just mentally broken haha)) and I would not care to die trying as I am not afraid of it since trying is for me more important than staying alive and not to.
Me too! Although it sounds like I'm a bit older than you. :-) I think what you're expressing is a wonderful way to be compelled. When I moved to my land, I did it all alone... and didn't know anyone here... and I never, ever regretted it. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever done in my life. So thrilling and exciting. I could have fallen into a snowbank and not been found until spring... and it didn't matter. I was just so in love with the land and all of nature and the experience... and I still am. NOW there is this incredible community of people all around me! We ALL moved up here not knowing anyone... and we're very like-minded. It is AMAZING!

It's always good to keep some clarity about what's reasonable and in alignment for each step of the journey. There are manic and controlling ways to do things... and there are wise and flexible ways to do things. In other words, to not get so intoxicated with ideas that one blinds oneself to the ever-changing and ever-flowing cosmic pulse that seems to pump through us... directing us in extraordinary ways that this convoluted world and our mini-minds cannot. There is an optimal time and energy for everything. I try to allow each of my days to be guided by that... instead of "forcing" things to fit the scope/concept of my ideas. As a result, MUCH broader things are manifesting.
Thomascbk wrote:I just think having my own society, if I may call it a society, of 1- 15 people would be the best thing for me. Instead of being a negative man shouting thrash to everyone and everything I dissagree with I would rather spare them the frustration and make the best for myself and nobody else.
Sounds terrific! If only everyone would strive for actively creating/refining themselves and their experience... rather than bombarding others with all kinds of discontent which accomplishes nothing and helps no one.

Yes, you are right, people have many different ways of finding balance and fulfillment. Different ideas work for different people... and connecting with like-minded people is essential.
Thomascbk wrote: (I used ''it'' especially for you :P ).
You are an understanding and compassionate soul. :-)
Thomascbk wrote: ( I do not call the earth bad or good so calling it a she has nothing to do with denigrating women, but If I could use my imagination I would prefer to live on a female earth as I can connect better with females).
Me too. I don't mind it when beautiful, organic, and wise things are referred to as female. My comment to another person was because they seemed to be labeling something negative as female, and I saw no reason for that at all. The supposedly innocent things we say can reveal attitudes we don't even realize we have. I see it in myself a lot when I write here... which is why this process has been so informative and entertaining. It helps to have as much love as possible for ourselves and all of it... all along the way. That way we accept it and move on. Otherwise it sticks to us, and we wrestle with it into oblivion. My view: Nothing is ultimately serious... and there are no limits. So why not keep moving and expanding joyfully and freely... as much as possible, and when possible? If it's not possible one day, it might be possible the next.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:56 am

Thomascbk wrote:So this is my first post, I am new here and I am not a native speaker. Excuse me if I make any mistakes in it.
I am an atheïst and do not believe in any higher power.

Like the title says I am struggling.
This society is doomed. Let me explain why I think that way.

We are forgetting our priorities and we have let the capitalistic system to take over our minds. It has made the normal people to slowly disconnect from culture such as art and literature. Having these "busy" lives as we do now because of our meaningless jobs and our time pressure has us made to prioritize our jobs (capitalism) above culture and the environment.

Cultural activities such as writing poetry or making a painting are extremely important to our individual development. It gives us time to express our emotions and just sit there thinking about life and the little things. Instead of everyone doing that sort of vital activities we are thaught to go to work and go to school. Learning and doing what the system wants us to learn and do.

I can go on and on about culture and how it helps our minds to develop, but I assume most people here have already come to that conclusion.

We also neglecting the environment in name of the capital. Producing ( not sure how to say it in English so pardon me ) fumes out of our cars is known to be bad for the environment, but if we pay for it (taxes) we can harm mother nature. It is sickening me. We are bending our morals. These new morals are capitalistic morals. Money can make bad things good.

We have prioritized our jobs and money above our own intellectual mind and this planet.
We have prioritized the capitalistic made-up world above the real world. It is insane.

I am not saying jobs are a bad thing.
What I am trying to say is that our lives should not be about our jobs, but that our jobs should help us in life instead of the other way around.

Time should not even exist. It is not a real thing.
I am not gonna explain that right now because I want you, if you have not already, think about it and come to that conclusion.

We working people are enslaved and put into this life where you have to work where you are merely but a product for the company. We have to put up with long shifts and harmfull stress and it makes us sick. But when we come home in this warm house, sit in our nice and cozy seat, eat some potato chips and watch television which we all had to buy with our money from our hard working life we think : oh whatever I am fine now, without work I would not have these kind of moments.

We use capitalism so we can have moments where we forget our capitalistic lifes ; holidays etc.
The irony on this one is so huge.
We think we need capitalism to forget about capitalism.

The capital is putting out luxury products and amusement which we can only buy by working to make our simple lives good enough to endure.

If people do not want to believe this, I would like to point out America.
The most capitalistic country in this world. It also has the largest entertainment business and it is known to make a show out of everything. Our fellow work-enslaved people in America are getting really stressfull lives. All in return they get a show where they forget their miserable and simple lives. Americans are often called dumb by Europeans. This is not true. They are just thaught to work hard and may in return play hard, within capitalistic rules. Tasteless entertainment is merely a capitalistic product to make us look away while they thighten our chains.

They are giving us a simple life.
It is up to you if you either play by their rules or if you make your own life where everyone of us can develop themselves as an individual.

Obviously without a global revolution this is not gonna stop. Before we can get to such a revolution we have to unite as people. This cannot happen if we are in war which is what the capital wants since it distracts us, makes them money and gives us the illusion that your country is worth fighting for.

Nations are not a good thing. It seperates people from people and categorize them.

We will obviously never be able to overcome capitalism.
We are too late.


That is why I want to run away with a select group of people into the wild and do it the way so us people can have a true meaningful life.

Just so we can do it right.
I'm with you, well most of it. The part in blue above I wholeheartedly disagree with. All we that feel this way have to do is consistently point in the right direction, as soon when their folly sinks in, with the collapse of their fearful, selfish, and greedy system, they shall come around. Or at least that's our only hope, otherwise we shall all surely die, at the hands of their absurdity!



Happy Holidays, to those that wish to celebrate, whatever it is they wish to celebrate, in the truest sense, of course!

artisticsolution
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by artisticsolution » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:39 am

Thomascbk wrote:
Nations are not a good thing. It seperates people from people and categorize them.
But didn't you say you only wanted about 10 like minded people in your group? Isn't this the same if not worse categorizing? At least most nations allow for all sorts of people and certainly more than 10.

tullip
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by tullip » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:37 pm

I like your ideas.

You said you can be a little idealistic sometimes, I agree with that one.
With these kinds of ideas, or fantasies, I immediatelly got my mind on these weird experiments some psychologists did. Like the Standford prison experiment and so on. It makes me wonder. Why do you think your people wouldn't turn against eachother? When you're with only 10 people, you can easily hold a grudge against someone. I think it doesn't matter at what moment, but eventually things will take a turn to the wrong side. I think.
I don't want to think that way, because I do like the idea of getting out of here. Just learn stuff for your own brains, not because society expects it from you. But because you want to learn these things. And you want to work out, you just do what you want to.
So it might work and turn out fine, but, do you even know what kind of people you want to do this with? Because I haven't found somebody yet who thinks like I do or has the same interests.

It also takes a lot of time to build these houses out of nothing. Not to forget about water and food. First you said you wanted a little village or something and my first thought: history repeats. We all started this way with our little communities. And there was always a leader present, because otherwise it would turn out to be one hell on earth. Not to forget you said something about a currency

There are many couples all over the world who get away together. Imagine, needs one hell of a relationship to keep up with that :wink:
But I do like that fantasy. Because I find it hard to be with many people, and although 10 is not much, you really have to know these people.

Then you still need the permission of the government. You have to move, otherwise you don't exist anymore. (What a wonderful idea would that be, but then they start looking for you etcetera etcetera).

So it is a awful lot of work. I think I would be dead because of the stress thát causes :wink:

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:03 am

 It was the most beautiful thing I've ever done in my life. So thrilling and exciting. I could have fallen into a snowbank and not been found until spring... and it didn't matter. I was just so in love with the land and all of nature and the experience... and I still am. NOW there is this incredible community of people all around me! We ALL moved up here not knowing anyone... and we're very like-minded. It is AMAZING!
That sounds really beautiful and it makes me for some unknown reason extremely happy for you.
instead of "forcing" things to fit the scope/concept of my ideas.
I wish I could do such a thing, but what I notice is that even after I try to do such a thing it makes me unhappy because I am adapting to everything and everyone. I am absolutely not social (I understand what they think and feel, but I can not feel and think that way myself), so I have to adapt (which I can do extremely well because I learn things from other people by copying their emotions, things they say and behaviour ) but I remain fake and can not seem to enjoy it as much as being alone and myself with my own weird ideas. And I think that is how it works for me with all I do. ( at this moment)
connecting with like-minded people is essential. 
I just think that can not be said enough haha.
If it's not possible one day, it might be possible the next.
I will definetly remember that :)
Thank you for that phrase, it is very motivating.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:28 am

Thank you for your reply.

I am very happy you agree with most of it and especially that you provide a new point of view : pointing out my pessimism and showing an optimistic way of thinking about the what next is gonna happen.


All we that feel this way have to do is consistently point in the right direction, as soon when their folly sinks in, with the collapse of their fearful, selfish, and greedy system, they shall come around. Or at least that's our only hope, otherwise we shall all surely die, at the hands of their absurdity!
To be honest as pessimistic as I am I have given up that hope, because most people do not even know/care about it. Being enslaved and getting overflown with entertainment etc. some people will even prefer such a thing.
And in a way capitalism is not a bad thing. What is bad is they way how we are executing it and how the are rich people exploiting us, normal people, and becoming only richer.

So any system that we will try to execute will most likely fail because we will not be able to execute it well without there being people that will try to exploit the system.

I have indeed given up that hope, but I am trying other things.

Ofcourse I still want you to be right and that the system will collapse. But after the collapse we may only hope that something better will come and not something that is the same. Or even worse.

Thanks!
May you and everyone else also enjoy these last days of this year!

Obvious Leo
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Obvious Leo » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:30 am

Lacewing. The flower-child in you is coming through loud and clear and I'm right with you, sister. It's the unreconstructed hippies of the world who know how to find meaning in it because reality is definable only in the language of its changes and the meaning of it all lies in how we as individuals can interpret those changes in our external world and connect them to our own internal dialogue. There's no such thing as a right way or a wrong way of doing this because the loneliest place in the entire universe is the uniquely private space which is our own minds. This is the only place where the notion of harmony can have a currency and its currency is an ever-moving feast of new discovery. I say this as a wordsmith whose only tools are also his toys but I suggest that this is true for all art, and meaningful living is surely the highest form of artistic expression.

Thomas. I like the way your mind works but I reckon you just need to lighten up a bit. This should happen quite spontaneously as long as you don't try to force the issue. As an old fart rapidly approaching his dotage I speak from a wealth of experience.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:30 am

Hi thanks for your reply and asking questions covering sociological aspects and converting it to realism. Which I indeed tend to try to ignore, because my fantasies should not be doubted by my rationiality haha.

Why I would think my people would not turn against each other? Well first I should not be getting used of calling them "my people", but refer to them as the people I co-exist with. Second, if I picked them correctly and they are the same as me they would prefer to seek solitude from time to time.
When you're with only 10 people, you can easily hold a grudge against someone.
Thinking about that makes me shiffer since I sometimes see things litteraly playing in my head as a movie. And now I am scared and worried about it haha.

I have indeed no clue how that will be stopped.
If I would be going and I was fortunate enough to find 10 people than I guess I would want to build some houses close to each other and some a few miles away so we can go away whenever we want and seek each other when we long company. Which will make room for such unfortunate events.

Maybe there is a simple answer to be found on how dogs take care of it. By fighting and after that the hierarchy is known. But that could create irritations, and again if I pick people like me. No one would dare to fight each other. And it will also point out a leader.

Or we could create sport events like the Olympics :P.
I think that would be the best "solution" as far as it may be a solution.
Just learn stuff for your own brains, not because society expects it from you. But because you want to learn these things. And you want to work out, you just do what you want to. 
That is funny, if you would translate that to Dutch than that is exactly what I say.
First you said you wanted a little village or something and my first thought: history repeats. We all started this way with our little communities. And there was always a leader present, because otherwise it would turn out to be one hell on earth. Not to forget you said something about a currency
Every time I get some time to think about how to do it I indeed come to the conclusion : history is repeating itself.
But we could look at history as a blueprint. We could add and remove things to the blueprint so we will not make the same mistakes. In that way we could learn from history. Meaning that maybe there will be a leaderposition, but we can anticipate on how to deal with this open position and make not the same mistakes as there have been made before.
Which sounds arrogant as if we would know on how to do it "right". But that is unfortunately all I can come up with for now.

Building these houses and food and water will be survival questions. Thank god Bear Grylls has teached us everything about it ;) . But seriously, there is enough knowledge on how to do that, we only have to execute these plans we can make before we go. We could live in tents just to get started and make things one by one untill we are done. It will at least keep us busy haha.
Currency will, I hope, not be necessary with 10 people. And as long as we make a collective food reserve we can share everything equally.
Before you ask how I know how we will share everything equally, and yes I am gonna use that simple argument again, if I have chosen the right people like me it will be split equally.

Oh wow than you must have really something special indeed...

Going out with max 10 people will ask a really good relationship between everyone. And 10 is a lot. But when you are on the same intellectual level, you will feel a deeper connection. Which make you think you know everything about the other. Which is often true, but that is not because of some magical connection which only the gods can see. It is because you look so much a like with the other that you are talking to another version of you.
You have to move, otherwise you don't exist anymore. (What a wonderful idea would that be, but then they start looking for you etcetera etcetera).
I like how you have thought about it, because that was one of my first worries and I have made an entire plan about it ( but it is obviously classified :P )
I will be living under the radar and in theory not exist. At least that is what I am aiming for.

It will cause a lot of stress. That is also one of the reasons I have shared this and let other people think with me, which is going absolutely perfect so far!

Excuse me for my bad English, but it is very very late right now haha

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:36 am

Thomas. I like the way your mind works but I reckon you just need to lighten up a bit. This should happen quite spontaneously as long as you don't try to force the issue. As an old fart rapidly approaching his dotage I speak from a wealth of experience.
Thanks for the reply and compliment Leo!
I can not agree more with what you said.
Yes, I am not trying to force it.
I guess in a few years it will happen since I am only 17 years old right now. So I will see what happens once I have grown up.

Obvious Leo
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Obvious Leo » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:58 am

Thomascbk wrote:I guess in a few years it will happen since I am only 17 years old right now. So I will see what happens once I have grown up.
Don't kid yourself that you'll ever grow up, mate, and be careful what you wish for in case it happens. However the yearning to have all the answers to all our questions becomes less of an imperative as we age because we begin to understand that the meaning of it all lies in the journey and not in the destination. What you choose to think or believe is only of consequence to yourself but how you live your life stamps an indelible mark on the future which will long outlive your own brief sojourn on the mortal coil. You only get one crack at it so give it your best shot and try and get a laugh out of it for fuck's sake.

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Lacewing
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Lacewing » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:32 am

Thomascbk wrote: That sounds really beautiful and it makes me for some unknown reason extremely happy for you.
How sweet and thank you! You just brought the broadest smile to my face.
Thomascbk wrote:
Lacewing wrote: instead of "forcing" things to fit the scope/concept of my ideas.
I wish I could do such a thing, but what I notice is that even after I try to do such a thing it makes me unhappy because I am adapting to everything and everyone.
Okay, so Thomascbk, I'd like to clarify what I was referring to here. I was NOT suggesting that we give up ourselves to other people and things. They don't know anything either. :D Rather, I think that we tend to limit ourselves and the potential in our lives when we over-identify with our OWN ideas of who we are and what life is. Without even realizing it, we start fitting everything into whatever limited model we've attached to. In doing so, we stop being able to recognize the continually expanding models/frequencies that could totally resonate for us in new ways. It's all there -- we are the ones who lock it down in a particular way. So I'm really just talking about us being aware of how we "get in our own way" with our ideas of what is and can be. There is always SO MUCH MORE than we've yet discovered/experienced on our own frequency.

When I was a kid... the world was huge and fascinating, and I didn't see any rules about what was possible. It was the humans who were making stuff up and causing conflict. I could see and feel connections everywhere. Everything in (and about) nature is alive and singing and breathing. It is MAGNIFICENT and HUGE and CONNECTED! I've been coming back to noticing it. Personally, I think there's more benefit and ability in resonating/flowing with that, than in trying to impose everything with an individual mini-mind. :D

OBVIOUS LEO... I savored your delectable post!

tullip
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by tullip » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:40 pm

Why I would think my people would not turn against each other? Well first I should not be getting used of calling them "my people", but refer to them as the people I co-exist with. Second, if I picked them correctly and they are the same as me they would prefer to seek solitude from time to time.
I have indeed no clue how that will be stopped.
If I would be going and I was fortunate enough to find 10 people than I guess I would want to build some houses close to each other and some a few miles away so we can go away whenever we want and seek each other when we long company. Which will make room for such unfortunate events.
I like that. But then you indeed get a sort of village. A little village.
Maybe there is a simple answer to be found on how dogs take care of it. By fighting and after that the hierarchy is known. But that could create irritations, and again if I pick people like me. No one would dare to fight each other. And it will also point out a leader.
There you have the hierarchy and leadership again. I don't like that. It makes me realize again that humans do need this leadership and fighting thing. You have to be all equal. And if you don't agree with one another you have to talk it out. Same with the olympics, because it creates a hierarchy and lets people now who is the best.

Just learn stuff for your own brains, not because society expects it from you. But because you want to learn these things. And you want to work out, you just do what you want to. 
That is funny, if you would translate that to Dutch than that is exactly what I say.
I hope we're not the only ones.
In that way we could learn from history. Meaning that maybe there will be a leaderposition, but we can anticipate on how to deal with this open position and make not the same mistakes as there have been made before.
Which sounds arrogant as if we would know on how to do it "right". But that is unfortunately all I can come up with for now.
You're right, and maybe we people do need some sort of leadership. But I'd like to think we don't need that. We can learn from history, but it often turns out people will always revert to our basic instincts. You have to be very confident about your people or the people you seek to think it will all turn out well. That's why I think maybe 10 is too much.
But when you are on the same intellectual level, you will feel a deeper connection. Which make you think you know everything about the other. Which is often true, but that is not because of some magical connection which only the gods can see. It is because you look so much a like with the other that you are talking to another version of you.
I like that idea.

Dalek Prime
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:06 am

Thomascbk wrote:So this is my first post, I am new here and I am not a native speaker. Excuse me if I make any mistakes in it.
I am an atheïst and do not believe in any higher power.

Like the title says I am struggling.
This society is doomed. Let me explain why I think that way.

We are forgetting our priorities and we have let the capitalistic system to take over our minds. It has made the normal people to slowly disconnect from culture such as art and literature. Having these "busy" lives as we do now because of our meaningless jobs and our time pressure has us made to prioritize our jobs (capitalism) above culture and the environment.

Cultural activities such as writing poetry or making a painting are extremely important to our individual development. It gives us time to express our emotions and just sit there thinking about life and the little things. Instead of everyone doing that sort of vital activities we are thaught to go to work and go to school. Learning and doing what the system wants us to learn and do.

I can go on and on about culture and how it helps our minds to develop, but I assume most people here have already come to that conclusion.

We also neglecting the environment in name of the capital. Producing ( not sure how to say it in English so pardon me ) fumes out of our cars is known to be bad for the environment, but if we pay for it (taxes) we can harm mother nature. It is sickening me. We are bending our morals. These new morals are capitalistic morals. Money can make bad things good.

We have prioritized our jobs and money above our own intellectual mind and this planet.
We have prioritized the capitalistic made-up world above the real world. It is insane.

I am not saying jobs are a bad thing.
What I am trying to say is that our lives should not be about our jobs, but that our jobs should help us in life instead of the other way around.

Time should not even exist. It is not a real thing.
I am not gonna explain that right now because I want you, if you have not already, think about it and come to that conclusion.

We working people are enslaved and put into this life where you have to work where you are merely but a product for the company. We have to put up with long shifts and harmfull stress and it makes us sick. But when we come home in this warm house, sit in our nice and cozy seat, eat some potato chips and watch television which we all had to buy with our money from our hard working life we think : oh whatever I am fine now, without work I would not have these kind of moments.

We use capitalism so we can have moments where we forget our capitalistic lifes ; holidays etc.
The irony on this one is so huge.
We think we need capitalism to forget about capitalism.

The capital is putting out luxury products and amusement which we can only buy by working to make our simple lives good enough to endure.

If people do not want to believe this, I would like to point out America.
The most capitalistic country in this world. It also has the largest entertainment business and it is known to make a show out of everything. Our fellow work-enslaved people in America are getting really stressfull lives. All in return they get a show where they forget their miserable and simple lives. Americans are often called dumb by Europeans. This is not true. They are just thaught to work hard and may in return play hard, within capitalistic rules. Tasteless entertainment is merely a capitalistic product to make us look away while they thighten our chains.

They are giving us a simple life.
It is up to you if you either play by their rules or if you make your own life where everyone of us can develop themselves as an individual.

Obviously without a global revolution this is not gonna stop. Before we can get to such a revolution we have to unite as people. This cannot happen if we are in war which is what the capital wants since it distracts us, makes them money and gives us the illusion that your country is worth fighting for.

Nations are not a good thing. It seperates people from people and categorize them.

We will obviously never be able to overcome capitalism.
We are too late.

That is why I want to run away with a select group of people into the wild and do it the way so us people can have a true meaningful life.

Just so we can do it right.
Don't sweat the things you can't control.

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