I am struggling and need you

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:12 am

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There is only one god - PROFIT.

And we ALL bow to her.




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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:47 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



There is only one god - PROFIT.

And we ALL bow to her.




.
I like that. Is it a quote and if so, from what book/article did it came from?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:07 am

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Thanks.




It's part of a phrase I think I put together for use in a group that I meet with most Saturdays. We meet at a church.

The phrase really works better when you say it out loud in the church -


In this room there is only one prophet - god.

Outside of this room there is only one god - profit.





...and congratulations upon an excellent thread.





.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:16 am

I think that is just a wonderful phrase.
A great synopsis of what I was trying to say, and if you do not mind I will quote you next time I am talking with someone about this.

And thanks a lot!

I admire you sir, you are being a good example for me.

duszek
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by duszek » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:17 pm

Your project reminds me of José Arcadio Buendía, the hero of "Cien anos de soledad" by García Marquez. A group of people went out into the wilderness in Colombia and made a new village.
It is magic realism though, so we cannot expect any realistic advice from the novel, only the atmosphere of such a project and what it may imply.

Is life in Holland really that stressful ?
They ride their bikes, smoke pot and are easy-going, as far as I have heard.

My idea would be to introduce some elements of self-maintanance into my life. And then to see how they work and then to expand more and more.

Did you think about internet ? Would your village create their own or would it do without ?

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Lacewing
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Lacewing » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Thomascbk wrote:No one should ever be getting such insane amounts of stress,
This is an interesting topic... and I can relate to many of the issues that you've pointed out. Humankind does seem very out-of-balance. Many of us can see issues with the world, which we would like to change... but which we realize is likely impossible to do on a large scale in our individual short lifetimes. So, what can we do right now, right where we are... and within our own experience? I think it is essential to BE the beauty/clarity/balance that we want, wherever we are... whatever the situation or condition. Also, I try to determine the most realistic path, based on where I am, what is accessible to me, and how much clarity I can manage to maintain amidst all the intoxication of the world.

Years ago, I wanted to find a suitable commune to join... where they already had everything in place. But I couldn't find one that "felt right" and would allow me to bring my small family of pets. I had a good job that allowed me to work from home, so I bought some wooded land to build my own creation/adventure "off-the-grid". I've watched some people work so hard to do everything from scratch, that they wear themselves out and have little time/energy for enjoyment or clarity. Since I love fun and efficiency, I used my steady income over the years to do/enjoy all sorts of things with my adventure, and my vision evolved. I still utilize the system for resources and conveniences... for as long as that's possible... but without taking it for granted. And I can't help but wonder about us humans finding/maintaining a balance within the system and this "modernized" world, without losing ourselves to it... and without losing ourselves to exhausting and potentially unmanageable visions of creating it anew. For example... we could use existing homesteads (with sufficient property) to house small groups, rather than just individuals... such that individuals have their own little "tiny houses" (300 sq.ft.) for privacy and space, and they utilize the "big house" for all the common needs... such as internet, laundry, showers, cooking, etc. It seems like an efficient way to utilize existing infrastructure, while maintaining individuality and privacy, and enjoying more security and modern conveniences in a small group. If there's a mortgage to pay off, everyone equally contributes enough financially to satisfy that each month. People could have more freedom to choose jobs they enjoy, rather than jobs that must enable them to exist completely on their own.

Of course, there's still the issue of people getting along well enough to share and co-exist and be fair and agreeable, at a time when we don't seem very well-evolved to do that. That's why it has to start with our own vibrations first -- who we are being wherever we are right now. If we tend to be aggravated and critical and discontent... we will be that way wherever we go, no matter how things are. It's easy to see what a person is "being" and how that creates their experience (no excuses), so that's important to recognize when hooking up with people for a joint venture. If we want our experience of the world to change, we have to have enough clarity and courage to see how we need to change our own vibration in the midst of all of it. Don't lose hope... gain love. There are many greater experiences to have.
Bill Wiltrack wrote: There is only one god - PROFIT.

And we ALL bow to her.
Why does this need to be identified as a "her"? Why not an "it"? Why do men tend to identify the greatest with "male"... and the twisted with "female"? That's fucked up.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:16 pm

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........................................................I assume you are female.


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Lacewing
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Lacewing » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:02 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
........................................................I assume you are female.
.
Yes. And I'm guessing you are male. So, let's move on...

Why do you feel it appropriate to identify the "Profit God" as a "her", rather than an "it"? Do you not see how that compares the concept of an "almighty righteous god" as a "him"... to a lesser and twisted god as a "her"? If you were a female, what would you think of men who continually and uncontrollably glorify their own image above women and all else? 8)

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:43 pm

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I used her out of respect. I use the feminine gender reference whenever I can for I feel uncomfortable always using him or mankind.



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artisticsolution
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by artisticsolution » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:25 pm

Thomascbk wrote:Hi thanks for the reply
Well I kind of drifted away from the statement I was trying to make. It was not my intention to make it about the colony stuff which I to be honest have not given that much thoughts before I wrote it down.

Art was just one example of what we are neglecting. Just as our own health. We undergo larger amounts of stress than we could handle during our schooltime and our jobs.
We look at it as if it is collateral damage. Damage to our bodys we could not prevent because we think it had to be done.

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You sound as if you believe making art is not stressful. I am an artist and I can tell you that making art is sometimes very stressful. When you have something to say, and the inability to say it, causes me much stress. Somedays, it's almost as if I've had a stroke and forgotten how to paint....nothing worse than wanting to paint something that is inside your mind and not having the ability! It's sort of like cutting off your hand and then having to learn to paint with your feet!

So frustrating.

I hear your desire for a better life, and I commend you on your kind wish for humanity, but I think no such thing will ever exist...and maybe for good reason...who knows.

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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by duszek » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:52 pm

I agree with AS who sounds like a well-intentioned expert in her field.

Addition from me:
How about dumping all the stuff that one does not really need (watching TV, playing video games, travelling, hanging around, showing off, wasting time, looking for entertainment, gossiping, using gadgets) and devoting the time and space left to art ?

I am myself still far away from the maximum of what is possible.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:24 pm

duszek wrote:Your project reminds me of José Arcadio Buendía, the hero of "Cien anos de soledad" by García Marquez. A group of people went out into the wilderness in Colombia and made a new village.
It is magic realism though, so we cannot expect any realistic advice from the novel, only the atmosphere of such a project and what it may imply.

Is life in Holland really that stressful ?
They ride their bikes, smoke pot and are easy-going, as far as I have heard.

My idea would be to introduce some elements of self-maintanance into my life. And then to see how they work and then to expand more and more.

Did you think about internet ? Would your village create their own or would it do without ?
Haha
We indeed do ride our bikes a lot. It is not like everyone is smoking pot, but it is not weird if someone tells us he does. It is in fact very illegal to take it outside of the coffeeshops. Easy-going, I do not know that since I can not compare it with other countries.
But it is stressfull.

To be honest I can only imagine myself with max 10 people to do this so it would be very basic and my idea was not to build a civilization or village.
Thinking about a big group seemed a fun idea and its fun to play with it in an utopian way, but putting it in reality it can only happen right in stories.
Sorry for the misinterpretation.

I would start off really primitive I guess, just some huts and do a lot of readin, thinking, meditating, learning and sporting. That are my biggest interests. Being the reason I want only a little group and only people that are like me. Otherwise it will be undoable.
My idea would be to introduce some elements of self-maintanance into my life. And then to see how they work and then to expand more and more.
That was what I had in mind too and is I think the best way to do it. Slowly expand by making things one by one.

Internet is something I do not need except for communicating with people I do not have the chance to talk with in real life, so if I have chosen the right people I would not be needing it or missing it. Picking out the right people will be hard since I can not intellectual sync with that many people although I have found somebody which gave my life a whole new dimension, so in that way I am optimistic.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:27 pm

Many of us can see issues with the world, which we would like to change... but which we realize is likely impossible to do on a large scale in our individual short lifetimes
I completely agreed with this statement. The way I translate my thoughts and feelings trough the English language are not always correctly done.
I have noticed my last words have given the impression I want to do it right for the people. And I see how that was not what I meant.
I do not care about trying to make such thing happen, because such thing will never happen. I wanted to do it right for myself and the same-minded people like me. Because there is no such thing as right. It is based on our morals etc. etc. But when people with the same way of thinking like me will do it than it is right as no one dissagrees. And it is naïve to think that I will find someone like me. But I would not mind going on my own; I like to be alone (I am still growing up and I have spent weeks all alone in the holidays and I learned how to connect with myself (or Im just mentally broken haha)) and I would not care to die trying as I am not afraid of it since trying is for me more important than staying alive and not to.
But before I come off as some depressed kid, which I am not I am in fact very happy with my life. Funny if you read how pessimistic I look at this world. But I am very happy with myself and that I know myself. I find joy in thinking about myself, which can be thought off as narcistic etc. but the fact that I do not care about being populair or any desires gives me rest to think about other things. And getting insight in those things that makes my quality of life so special. Running away and living on my own or with this one same-minded friend of mine and having more time to think would be my ultimate goal of happiness I guess.

So why post it at first? Because I would like other people that think like me to see this and give them this insight and idea and to let them know they are not alone and to make sure they do not lose grip on reality. Which I experienced before I met this same-minded friend who told her thoughts and I knew I am not crazy, but I am just different. As if my mom had not told me that enough :P


I think it is essential to BE the beauty/clarity/balance that we want, wherever we are... whatever the situation or condition.
I think that is a very beautiful way of thinking, create the life we want in ourselves so we can be happy whatever happens.
However I do not think I would be able to do such a thing, well at least not now. I could try and try but everything around me would be just demotivating me. I am not strong enough for such a thing.
Years ago, I wanted to find a suitable commune to join... where they already had everything in place. But I couldn't find one that "felt right" and would allow me to bring my small family of pets.
Which is why I want to go by myself or same-minded people, at least that one friend of mine (who wants to do the same thing)
Since I love fun and efficiency, I used my steady income over the years to do/enjoy all sorts of things with my adventure, and my vision evolved. I still utilize the system for resources and conveniences... for as long as that's possible... but without taking it for granted.
It seems that you can adapt yourself very well to circumstances, which is a great quality.
And I can't help but wonder about us humans finding/maintaining a balance within the system and this "modernized" world, without losing ourselves to it... and without losing ourselves to exhausting and potentially unmanageable visions of creating it anew.
True, but everyone has a different defintion of balance. Which is why politics can only make comprimises and is why everyone in a society will have something to dissagree with, but therefore in trade they get protection, luxury etc. I just think having my own society, if I may call it a society, of 1- 15 people would be the best thing for me. Instead of being a negative man shouting thrash to everyone and everything I dissagree with I would rather spare them the frustration and make the best for myself and nobody else. It would be a damn waste of my time anyway haha.
For example... we could use existing homesteads (with sufficient property) to house small groups, rather than just individuals... such that individuals have their own little "tiny houses" (300 sq.ft.) for privacy and space, and they utilize the "big house" for all the common needs... such as internet, laundry, showers, cooking, etc. It seems like an efficient way to utilize existing infrastructure, while maintaining individuality and privacy, and enjoying more security and modern conveniences in a small group. If there's a mortgage to pay off, everyone equally contributes enough financially to satisfy that each month. People could have more freedom to choose jobs they enjoy, rather than jobs that must enable them to exist completely on their own.
That is in my eyes a great way to do it all. But there would be many people that do not want it. Quoting Aristoteles ( in my attempt to do the best english translation I can) : ''For some people it is the one, and for the others it is the other and often it is for the same person variating from time to time wanting the one or the other: when it is sick, it is thinking about health care, when its poor, it thinks about being rich.''
(I used ''it'' especially for you :P ). So maybe many people will agree with you at the moment they hear it because they need it at that moment, but for you it could be what you want whatever the circumstances may be. Meaning it will never work unless you do it with same-minded people and keep it small.

Don't lose hope... gain love.
Might be good for me indeed...

But I just think what I said above is better for me and the world since I will not be bothering her and she will not be bothering me and it is the easier way for me since people can demotivate me really fast.

( I do not call the earth bad or good so calling it a she has nothing to do with denigrating women, but If I could use my imagination I would prefer to live on a female earth as I can connect better with females).

Excuse me if I made any grammatic faults, but I am too exhausted to check it all again haha.

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:51 pm

You sound as if you believe making art is not stressful. I am an artist and I can tell you that making art is sometimes very stressful.
Art was just an example for the people that do art for relaxation etc. Since I am not the art type but prefer literature I indeed have very little knowledge about it and I am sorry if it may have sounded like art is something simple and not hard to do. I in fact respect artistic people for their way of expressing their feelings/thoughts trough image and I wish I could do the same. But I do not want people to do art for passion and/or a profession, I want them to do it for a passion. I think art/ literature/ philosophy/ poetry/ dance/ music/ theatre and many more things like that are good for ones personal development. Which should not be done because they have to do it for any other goal except than developing themself in my opinion, but now because we can not have enough time to do such a thing and be having a job to get enough money it is for the most passionate ones a something they will choose as a profession because they do not want to give it up. Which is great, but hard to do with there being low interest in such things because of the little stimulation for one to develop itself.

When you have something to say, and the inability to say it
It sounds horrible and I feel lucky for myself being able to use simple things as words. But that kind of stress is different, it is stress u get from yourself and is not being put up to you by someone else. Meaning no one else is making you undergo it. Which makes it non-colleteral and therefore not stress that is useless. But nontheless it is worrying me just thinking about someone undergoing those feelings and I honestly hope it will not take too much of you.
I really do.

Thank you for supporting my own choice and not make me wanting to throw it in the trash can, but I agree with you.
I have noticed my last words(1) have given the impression I want to do it right for the people. And I see how that was not what I meant.
I do not care about trying to make such thing happen, because such thing will never happen. I wanted to do it right for myself and the same-minded people like me. Because there is no such thing as right. It is based on our morals etc. etc. But when people with the same way of thinking like me will do it than it is right as no one dissagrees.
(2)True, but everyone has a different defintion of balance. Which is why politics can only make comprimises and is why everyone in a society will have something to dissagree with, but therefore in trade they get protection, luxury etc. I just think having my own society, if I may call it a society, of 1- 15 people would be the best thing for me. Instead of being a negative man shouting thrash to everyone and everything I dissagree with I would rather spare them the frustration and make the best for myself and nobody else. It would be a damn waste of my time anyway haha.
(1) refering to the original post
(2) In reaction to Lacewing

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Thomascbk
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Re: I am struggling and need you

Post by Thomascbk » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:59 pm

duszek wrote:
Addition from me:
How about dumping all the stuff that one does not really need (watching TV, playing video games, travelling, hanging around, showing off, wasting time, looking for entertainment, gossiping, using gadgets) and devoting the time and space left to art ?

I am myself still far away from the maximum of what is possible.
If we would be dumping all the stuff one does not really need we will live like animals, or gods...
But the things we should be doing in our spare time that one does not really need should be useful.
Now I am really convinced that useful means developing as an indiviual so I am aware I may be and even am wrong since useful is subjective.

So about your addition: I do agree with it.

Note: All my ideas are just mine ideas and I want to state that I do not want to dictate other people and to take away their free will which would be one hell of an irony. I just want people to look at my ideas and to make them see that such things can also be thought of. Just as one of the many inspirations one can have and let them take the things they think are good out of it and apply them to ones self.

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