A question of philosophy?

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Rthok
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A question of philosophy?

Post by Rthok » Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am

If we can ignore (for the sake of the question) the certainty/probability/possibility that biological factors influence things, could you agree with the following statement? "If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."

FlashDangerpants
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon May 06, 2019 2:35 pm

No. As with all questions of determinism, there's no way of testing this at all, so the best you can have there is 'I would probably', or 'I might'.

uwot
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by uwot » Mon May 06, 2019 2:46 pm

Well look, if you are suggesting that one collection of matter could have exactly the same experiences as another lump of matter, you're implying that they would be in the same place all the time. Kinda sounds like there is only one lump of matter.

Impenitent
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by Impenitent » Mon May 06, 2019 11:06 pm

the lump in itself is beyond experience

-Imp

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A_Seagull
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by A_Seagull » Tue May 07, 2019 3:56 am

Impenitent wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:06 pm
the lump in itself is beyond experience

-Imp
but 'the lump in itself' is a consequence of experience.

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Gary Childress
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by Gary Childress » Tue May 07, 2019 4:58 am

Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
If we can ignore (for the sake of the question) the certainty/probability/possibility that biological factors influence things, could you agree with the following statement? "If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
That's a very difficult question to answer.

Another interesting question to me would be, if two brains were perfectly biologically identical (down to the arrangement of every single atom within the two) and experienced the exact same external stimuli, would their resulting behaviors be identical? I believe the answer might be "not necessarily" because there is supposedly a certain degree of randomness in how things happen at the atomic level which could perhaps create subtle variations in how two such (otherwise identical) brains responded to inputs.

HexHammer
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by HexHammer » Tue May 07, 2019 6:36 am

Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
"If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
No, by saying this would suggest you lack basic knowledge about psychology, intellects etc.

An IQ 115++ would find it dreadful boring doing stuff what an IQ 90 find amusing, people have different cognitive abilities to perceive the same thing, therefore the experience will be different.

You need to read up on stuff instead of sitting here and having cozy chat on a glaringly ignorant basis!

This is a philosophy forum, philosophy = love of wisdom, love of wisdom =/= ignorant chat!

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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by attofishpi » Tue May 07, 2019 9:38 am

Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
If we can ignore (for the sake of the question) the certainty/probability/possibility that biological factors influence things, could you agree with the following statement? "If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
Great question. Answer: Yes.


IQ which hex pointed out, is possibly omitted by the biological factor omission in your statement. (if IQ is purely a result of ones genetics)

gaffo
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by gaffo » Wed May 08, 2019 3:07 am

Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
If we can ignore (for the sake of the question) the certainty/probability/possibility that biological factors influence things, could you agree with the following statement? "If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
noting genes, and that we differ due to some of them - we remain 99.999999 percent indentical - so our core nature is the same for all of us.

as a Universal Humanist i affirm if i walked in your shoes of life i would be you.
Last edited by gaffo on Wed May 08, 2019 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

gaffo
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by gaffo » Wed May 08, 2019 3:13 am

HexHammer wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:36 am
Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
"If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
No, by saying this would suggest you lack basic knowledge about psychology, intellects etc.

An IQ 115++ would find it dreadful boring doing stuff what an IQ 90 find amusing, people have different cognitive abilities to perceive the same thing, therefore the experience will be different.

You need to read up on stuff instead of sitting here and having cozy chat on a glaringly ignorant basis!

This is a philosophy forum, philosophy = love of wisdom, love of wisdom =/= ignorant chat!
intelligence is one of many differences we have - like many other factors - such as introspection, physical build etc.............those differences are no relivant to the bigger picture - that of being human.

so intelligence is irrelevant IMO.

but i'm a biased universal humanist.

gaffo
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by gaffo » Wed May 08, 2019 3:16 am

attofishpi wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:38 am
Rthok wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 am
If we can ignore (for the sake of the question) the certainty/probability/possibility that biological factors influence things, could you agree with the following statement? "If I'd experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life, I would feel/believe the same way that you do."
Great question. Answer: Yes.


IQ which hex pointed out, is possibly omitted by the biological factor omission in your statement. (if IQ is purely a result of ones genetics)
intelligence is 95-percent genetic, but last time i noted, intelligent folks and retarded ones were both humans and shared the same "spirit" - valued good conduct, have a conscience/etc............so both humans.

all i need to know myself.

surreptitious57
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 am

If I experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life then I might feel or believe the same way that you do
That is about as close to the truth as you can get because there is no way this could be tested so its just pure speculation

gaffo
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by gaffo » Wed May 08, 2019 5:56 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 am
If I experienced exactly what you experienced throughout your life then I might feel or believe the same way that you do
That is about as close to the truth as you can get because there is no way this could be tested so its just pure speculation
yes of course. it boils down to "Faith" - if one believes we are all the same (not 100-percent, but 99.99 - "Enough the same" to be the same in born nature), or if you believe we are not the same - or not "same enough" and that the minor differences due to our DNA condemns one to life of crime/poverty/murder while the other not. Adn to clarify, i do think DNA in extreme examples may allow one to become a killer/etc while another in same environment will not become one (but its rare and the killer is still a human so not a philosophical issue with me (i think i might be one of those anyway - or more apty could have become one if given a poor environ. (just conjecture on my part)


we all the same imo - but i have my "faith" as a UH, so no proof of course.

thanks for reply BTW.

HexHammer
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by HexHammer » Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 pm

gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:13 am
intelligence is one of many differences we have - like many other factors - such as introspection, physical build etc.............those differences are no relivant to the bigger picture - that of being human.

so intelligence is irrelevant IMO.

but i'm a biased universal humanist.
Maybe you are partially right, but it's difficult to accurately define it.

gaffo
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Re: A question of philosophy?

Post by gaffo » Fri May 10, 2019 1:57 am

HexHammer wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 pm
gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:13 am
intelligence is one of many differences we have - like many other factors - such as introspection, physical build etc.............those differences are no relivant to the bigger picture - that of being human.

so intelligence is irrelevant IMO.

but i'm a biased universal humanist.
Maybe you are partially right, but it's difficult to accurately define it.
yes that could be - and maybe because you are an intellectual, as myself.

and maybe that is overated? i think it might be.

maybe we can try to define it by "feeling instead".

thanks for civil reply Sir. Life is here to listen, not to know why - listen from within mostly IMO.

but whatever, i'm a quack, just do you - whatever that is and carry on ;-/.

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