a new definition of knowledge

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Walker
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Walker »

Advocate wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 3:57 am knowledge = the concurrence/intersection/conjunction of evidence

All of those do a good job, but i think concurrence does the best work.
'Tis a big burden for one thing to mean another thing, or to be defined by another thing.
Walker
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Walker »

A woman loves her child more than a man loves his, because she knows for sure that it's her's.

Based on your knowledge and wisdom, what does this sentence mean to you?
popeye1945
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by popeye1945 »

Walker,

Experience is knowledge for the individual and for the group it is an experience agreed upon.
Advocate
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Advocate »

[quote=popeye1945 post_id=574577 time=1653495892 user_id=21999]
Walker,

Experience is knowledge for the individual and for the group it is an experience agreed upon.
[/quote]

"Reality" is consensus. Reality-to-us is experience.
jayjacobus
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by jayjacobus »

Walker wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:33 pm A woman loves her child more than a man loves his, because she knows for sure that it's her's.

Based on your knowledge and wisdom, what does this sentence mean to you?
It means that incognizant is unknowing and trust is often needed.
Last edited by jayjacobus on Wed May 25, 2022 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Iwannaplato
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Iwannaplato »

So, if you are older, you have more knowledge of the world than the ones you are older than? Can we say that 30 year olds have more knowledge of the world than 29 year olds?You mention that old age does not guarantee knowledge volume, but if experience is knowledge than why not?
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:24 pmOne person can have greater or lesser intelligence than the average and even intelligence is not a guarantee of wisdom. Also, some people have a much wider range of experiences than others inferring greater levels of knowledge.
I am not sure why you are bringing in wisdom. I was responding to the someone is saying knowledge is experience. I get that they are related, but the explaining why experience is not a guarantee of wisdom is not relevant. Unless wisdom is knowledge, and they you could just make the argument without even bringing in knowledge.

Now you introduce intelligence. Great.
But you said, Knowlege is experience. Not knowledge is experience + intelligence. Nor did you formula imply anything about varieties of experience.

IOW you seem to be supporting your original statement in the way you respond, but what you are saying is actually supporting my skepticism about the original quote.

I think that other qualities, other than intelligence, play a strong role. Curiosity, focus, drive are a few off the top of my head.

But then just intelligence indicates a lot of cognitive processes. IOW experience is not enough, one has to do things with what one notices and lives. One must make a lot of choices, to repeat, to study, to compare, to contrast. There's pattern recognition. There is often mentoring which entails learning those and many other cognitive processes.

And also there is the problem with your first assertion looks like a definition. But knowledge is not experience. There all sorts of ideas where you just could not replace one of those words with the other. Nor does the latter necessarily lead to the former. Or all education and training would be unnecessary. All study. Practice. Reflection. All unneeded.

We would just sit in a chair and experience.

I do think experience is necessary for knowledge (not very controversial) but hardly sufficient.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Wed May 25, 2022 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jayjacobus
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by jayjacobus »

Advocate wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 3:57 am knowledge = the concurrence/intersection/conjunction of evidence

All of those do a good job, but i think concurrence does the best work.
Knowledge can be contradictory and is many times only conjecture.

Believe what you want but I wouldn't call concurrence knowledge.
popeye1945
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by popeye1945 »

There are qualities that an intelligent person might have which would enhance experience/knowledge, such as focus but essentially experience is knowledge and there is no way of denying this. It is also my opinion that experience is reaction is consciousness, perception being a compound or perhaps a chain reaction involving the whole organism. Again, to the individual knowledge/truth is experience, to the group it is an agreement of a given experience.
popeye1945
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by popeye1945 »

Iwannaplato,

Experience is perception/reaction to the outer world and an of utter necessity to our being able to move through the world without be frozen in fearful inhibition. This is the start of a process that leads to understanding and judgment, however, it is not infallible and is subject to illusions and delusions. The process itself is a biological readout of what it is sensing of what is called ultimate reality, using this experience/information/reaction the individual forms what is called apparent reality, apparent because it only involves certain aspects of ultimate reality. One can alter one's experience in any give situation by altering the subject's biology thus altering perception/experience/knowledge/judgment.
Iwannaplato
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Iwannaplato »

jayjacobus wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:22 pm Knowledge can be contradictory and is many times only conjecture.
I assume you mean what is taken to be knowledge.
Iwannaplato
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Iwannaplato »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:19 am Experience is perception/reaction to the outer world and an of utter necessity to our being able to move through the world without be frozen in fearful inhibition.
Without experience there is no moving through the world in any way at all, unless our lifeless body rolls down a hill or something. A person in frozen inhibition is still experiencing. Sure, it's not a good state for learning, but it would be an experience and that person is experiencing. You seem to have some special definition of 'experience'.
This is the start of a process that leads to understanding and judgment, however, it is not infallible and is subject to illusions and delusions. The process itself is a biological readout of what it is sensing of what is called ultimate reality, using this experience/information/reaction the individual forms what is called apparent reality, apparent because it only involves certain aspects of ultimate reality. One can alter one's experience in any give situation by altering the subject's biology thus altering perception/experience/knowledge/judgment.
Here is sounds like experience means something like:

the mode of experiencing one has.

And that this affects perception/knowledge/judgment.
Sure, of course.

But it is not the same as knowledge. It affects knowledge.
Walker
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:59 pm But then just intelligence indicates a lot of cognitive processes. IOW experience is not enough, one has to do things with what one notices and lives. One must make a lot of choices, to repeat, to study, to compare, to contrast. There's pattern recognition. There is often mentoring which entails learning those and many other cognitive processes.
To be wise, one must make only one choice. The right one. The thing is, one choice is not a choice.

"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." 1 Kings 3:28

"To do judgment."

(That's confirmation from an authoritative source.)
Walker
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Walker »

Imagine that ... biblically-certified wisdom interpreting modern-day phenomena that gets heard or experienced, without pity or equivocation ... and then "doing wisdom."

Doing knowledge? That's what everyone does. No reason to be afraid of that.
Iwannaplato
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:28 am To be wise, one must make only one choice. The right one.
In many situations there are a few good options, especially from our perspective.
The thing is, one choice is not a choice.
Well, if you can only choose from amongst one set of options, that's no choice. Choosing between an options that is right or the best and others that are not is a choice.
"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." 1 Kings 3:28

"To do judgment."

(That's confirmation from an authoritative source.)
Confirmation of what? And how does all or any of this relate to what I wrote?
jayjacobus
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Re: a new definition of knowledge

Post by jayjacobus »

Walker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:28 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:59 pm But then just intelligence indicates a lot of cognitive processes. IOW experience is not enough, one has to do things with what one notices and lives. One must make a lot of choices, to repeat, to study, to compare, to contrast. There's pattern recognition. There is often mentoring which entails learning those and many other cognitive processes.
To be wise, one must make only one choice. The right one. The thing is, one choice is not a choice.

"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." 1 Kings 3:28

"To do judgment."

(That's confirmation from an authoritative source.)
Don't fear the king who doesn't not know you because he cannot judge what he doesn't know.

Let the king fear the people who know him and can judge him.
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