Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:10 pm
Age wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:04 pm
Also, and by the way, 'the Truth' IS IRREFUTABLE, whereas 'the truth' can be REFUTED on MANY occasions.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:51 pm
Ah, so "the Truth" is
Objective
Truth — correspondence with '
that which actually, and mind-independently, is'?
Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:05 am
If, and when, one wants to use the 'mind' word, then I suggest that they have an IRREFUTABLE definition for that word. Otherwise I suggest they just leave that word out altogether.
I'm sorry that "mind" does not meet with your approval.
What a completely stupid and useless claim here.
I have NEVER even thought, let alone suggested ANYWHERE, that 'mind' does not meet with my approval.
I suggest reading the ACTUAL words that I use, and ONLY them.
Do you have an IRREFUTABLE definition for the 'mind' word?
If yes, then what is 'it'?
But if no, then I suggest you refrain from using that word until you obtain one.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:10 pm
Happily, in this case, it's role is peripheral, at best. "Mind-independently" is a common abbreviation used in such discussions as these, to describe how Objective Truth is independent of the thoughts, ideas, beliefs and opinions of any human (or any other intelligent being).
OF COURSE the 'mind' word when added with the 'independently' word is used to describe what you expressed here. Just like the 'closed-mindedness' words together are used to describe just how CLOSED one is to thee ACTUAL Truth of things. But, using the 'mind' word in that way does NOT mean that ANYONE is using the 'mind' word CORRECTLY.
Words NEED to be used together in a way that FITS IN, PERFECTLY, with what IS IRREFUTABLY ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct, otherwise the Incorrect usage of words just leads to CONFUSION, as evidenced and PROVED True over the last few thousand years of human history, hitherto when this is being written.
Now, considering EACH and EVERY discussion about Objective Truth is done through thought, ideas, beliefs, or opinions, then it could be said and argued that if the definition of Objective Truth is 'that', which is 'independent-of-mind', then whatever is 'independent-of-mind' could, literally, NOT be discussed. Therefore, leading to ABSURDNESS, in the EXTREME.
It is just pure ABSURD and RIDICULOUS to think or believe that one could have a discussion about 'that', which is meant to be independent of 'mind', discussion, or thought.
The STUPIDITY of 'discussing' what is independent of discussion, speaks for itself.
If one wants to discuss about and refer to things that existed prior to when human beings were created, through evolution, like the Universe, the sun, and the earth, or things that could and do exist without human beings, then so be it. But 'trying to' discuss what is claimed to be independent of thought and discussion is just IDIOTIC. Well from my perspective anyway.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:51 pm
If you wanted to say that you consider Truth to be
Objective, why didn't you just say so?
Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:05 am
But I did NOT want to say 'that'.
WHY did you ASSUME that 'that' is what I wanted to say?
I'm sorry if I erred. I wasn't assuming anything, but only trying to understand your words and your position. My
best guess as to your intended meaning was as I described. Happily, you are here to correct my misapprehensions.[/quote]
INSTEAD of making guesses, which are just more or less ASSUMPTIONS anyway, why do you not just ask me questions FIRST, to obtain CLARITY?
Instead of 'best guessing' what I mean\ I suggest you just ask me what I mean.
Now, to me 'Truth' just refers to 'that', which is IRREFUTABLE, or Objective, which, by the way, has NOTHING AT ALL necessarily to do with 'that', which is independent of thought.
To me, Objectivity is reached and achieved through a certain or particular process.
To me, Objectivity is NOT some 'thing', which is an IMPOSSIBILITY.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:10 pm
Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:05 am
And, if you REALLY WANTED to KNOW what I meant by A, or ANY, word, then why not just pose a question, for clarification. Like, for example;
When you use the 'Truth' word, then what do you mean, or are referring to, EXACTLY?
I thought I had done exactly that...?
You may well have. But when I answered your question, you THEN made a guess, or assumption.
I suggest NEVER making ANY assumptions/guesses EVER, and instead just ask questions, for clarity, until CLARIFICATION is made.
That way you will NEVER make ANY misapprehensions, which would need to be corrected.