personal truth

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Advocate
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Re: personal truth

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Dubious post_id=560430 time=1645326248 user_id=10929]
The word truth is completely unnecessary and malfunctional in just about any language on the planet. It's only used to fix what appears true as truth. It changes an active connotation (true) into a denotation (truth). It changes the concept of flow into something that's fixed and anchored. If we go with the flow more often, we will many times avoid a situation that needs to be but can't be fixed. One can also say it functions perversely as a[i] power word[/i] when dogmatized and legalized by scripture, enshrining it in an aura of infallibility.

The word [i]Truth[/i] as encountered in human affairs is the least truthful and trustful word in the dictionary...a conceptual container of the most egregious lies.
[/quote]

Because words that reference the transcendent (ultimate knowledge - Truth) are mere placeholders for the ineffable, the word must be used to refer to that which we can be most certain of. Truth is True to the extent it validates. Certain enough for a given use case is the only level of certainty available. When we get to that point, we stop trying to get more evidence.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:38 am
DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
DPMartin.
Knowledge is a personal experience, and personal knowledge/experience is personal truth. As an organism you are the only sensing object in the physical world, and what your body tells you, is true to the state of your biology being in the world. Among healthy examples of a given species is related a common apparent reality, common experiences. Over eons of time, that common knowledge/experience becomes instinct. The instincts of a species reflects its biology. This is relative truth, and with this relative truth organism is able to move through a dangerous world. We can take useful knowledge/experience from trusted sources, books and many other sources because by and large we share a common apparent reality, a common experience of things in general. A different biology experiences a different apparent reality, this is true from species to species and from individual to individual, but to the common healthy biology of a given species, the experience/knowledge is the same.
now see what i highlighted in you posting is way off base, your body lies to you all the time. there are ailments that never are known until it’s to late every day. (You know the scenario; he just keeled over and died right there) and no you’re not the center of the universe. at least that sounds like what you're saying here. You and millions of others will most likely live and die and be forgotten within 50 years after you are gone, even by your family. you are not the source of truth; how can that be anyway seeing its mankind's nature to lie and then lie again to cover the lie.

revelation and or experience is knowledge, actually: its to know. the true spirit of the word knowledge is that it’s acknowledged in the original British sense. hence one can receive revelation or have experienced something and deny the truth of it. Therefore, not knowledge to the recipient of the revelation, yet it very well can be the truth.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

You don't understand my post. Experiece is knowledge as is truth and falsehood, while it is true the senses are not infallible it is the best we have to work with and have the results check by the group experience, revelation is nonsense. To double-check with the same biology that perhaps errored in the first place would be folly.
Last edited by popeye1945 on Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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RCSaunders
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Re: personal truth

Post by RCSaunders »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
There are not different kinds of truth. Anything that implies there is anything other than simple truth is a lie intended to put over some vice or personal shortcoming. There is only truth.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:05 am
DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
There are not different kinds of truth. Anything that implies there is anything other than simple truth is a lie intended to put over some vice or personal shortcoming. There is only truth.
that would be correct, but that isn't what society wants, is it?
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:58 am You don't understand my post.
no, if you're going to say something as though its true then it must stand as true. maybe that is what you might not understand. i realize in today's society in the free world everyone is lead to believe they are entitled and their views and opinions are supposed to be important and respected.

but in reality, that's not true at all. one's personal views are of no relevance what so ever. what should be sot is the truth, or the truth of the matter so on and so forth. which in most cases will be contrary to one's own views especially if one thinks that one's own views supersede the truth.
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RCSaunders
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Re: personal truth

Post by RCSaunders »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:20 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:05 am
DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
There are not different kinds of truth. Anything that implies there is anything other than simple truth is a lie intended to put over some vice or personal shortcoming. There is only truth.
that would be correct, but that isn't what society wants, is it?
No it's not. Personally, I couldn't care less what society wants and I'm content to let society enjoy the fruits of its ignorance. You can't fix it and a great deal of harm has been produced by those who try. As long as you and I know what truth is and live according the truth we have learned, what society does is its own problem, not ours.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:34 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:20 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:05 am
There are not different kinds of truth. Anything that implies there is anything other than simple truth is a lie intended to put over some vice or personal shortcoming. There is only truth.
that would be correct, but that isn't what society wants, is it?
No it's not. Personally, I couldn't care less what society wants and I'm content to let society enjoy the fruits of its ignorance. You can't fix it and a great deal of harm has been produced by those who try. As long as you and I know what truth is and live according the truth we have learned, what society does is its own problem, not ours.
well its seems good to be content in that, but unless one is in power or is rich enough to have screw you money, one has to deal with those in power and influence. and its wiser to be aware of such and how it can effect one's doings, then to not be aware.
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RCSaunders
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Re: personal truth

Post by RCSaunders »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:45 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:34 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:20 pm

that would be correct, but that isn't what society wants, is it?
No it's not. Personally, I couldn't care less what society wants and I'm content to let society enjoy the fruits of its ignorance. You can't fix it and a great deal of harm has been produced by those who try. As long as you and I know what truth is and live according the truth we have learned, what society does is its own problem, not ours.
well its seems good to be content in that, but unless one is in power or is rich enough to have screw you money, one has to deal with those in power and influence. and its wiser to be aware of such and how it can effect one's doings, then to not be aware.
So make sure you are rich enough to live they way you choose. There are other ways, but wealth is definitely one way to secure one's own freedom.

I know there are always those who will argue that everyone can't do that. Of course everyone can't. The reality is some human beings are born with handicaps and defects that make living itself impossible. But almost everyone could be and achieve much more than they do, and most people could be millionaires if they chose to--but they won't, because living in squalor is easier and they can enjoy complaining a lot.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:25 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:58 am You don't understand my post.
no, if you're going to say something as though its true then it must stand as true. maybe that is what you might not understand. i realize in today's society in the free world everyone is lead to believe they are entitled and their views and opinions are supposed to be important and respected.

but in reality, that's not true at all. one's personal views are of no relevance what so ever. what should be sot is the truth, or the truth of the matter so on and so forth. which in most cases will be contrary to one's own views especially if one thinks that one's own views supersede the truth.
Each individual is the center of the universe, in the sense that apparent reality is dependent upon the conscious subject, take away the conscious subject and a world disappears, cognitively. Seeing as the only way the world can be known is cognitively that does make the conscious subject all important. Did you mention revelation? Superstition/religion really does not provide us with information about the outer world. The reality we know is a biological readout, reality is reaction, interpretation and projection of what is available to us, but not the full spectrum of what is out there but what we can sense. Reality is emergent within the subject, never the object, which means biology in relation to the world as object is the source of all meaning.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:55 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:25 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:58 am You don't understand my post.
no, if you're going to say something as though its true then it must stand as true. maybe that is what you might not understand. i realize in today's society in the free world everyone is lead to believe they are entitled and their views and opinions are supposed to be important and respected.

but in reality, that's not true at all. one's personal views are of no relevance what so ever. what should be sot is the truth, or the truth of the matter so on and so forth. which in most cases will be contrary to one's own views especially if one thinks that one's own views supersede the truth.
Each individual is the center of the universe, in the sense that apparent reality is dependent upon the conscious subject, take away the conscious subject and a world disappears, cognitively. Seeing as the only way the world can be known is cognitively that does make the conscious subject all important. Did you mention revelation? Superstition/religion really does not provide us with information about the outer world. The reality we know is a biological readout, reality is reaction, interpretation and projection of what is available to us, but not the full spectrum of what is out there but what we can sense. Reality is emergent within the subject, never the object, which means biology in relation to the world as object is the source of all meaning.
that's narcissism in in most glorious fashion, isn't it?


the world in the case of your posting here is the center of the world and you're alive if it perceives your life, otherwise you're dead to the world and not perceived. the universe is the center of the universe, and the world is the center of the world, in the case you speak of. and for you, according to your postings are the center of yourself. nothing else. you seem to perceive you are the center, but actually you're just another object or unit that makes up the world, of conscious beings. the center of nothing but self, which by desire can change to something desired to be your center such as being perceived by the world that the world around you is conscious of you.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

that's narcissism in in most glorious fashion, isn't it?


the world in the case of your posting here is the center of the world and you're alive if it perceives your life, otherwise you're dead to the world and not perceived. the universe is the center of the universe, and the world is the center of the world, in the case you speak of. and for you, according to your postings are the center of yourself. nothing else. you seem to perceive you are the center, but actually you're just another object or unit that makes up the world, of conscious beings. the center of nothing but self, which by desire can change to something desired to be your center such as being perceived by the world that the world around you is conscious of you.
[/quote]

DPMartin,

All-knowing, all- meaning is the property of a conscious subject never, read never the property of the object. The physical world is not conscious, the physical world is utterly meaningless, until meaning is bestowed upon it by a conscious subject. This means, the world does not perceive you, it is affected by you but does not perceive you. You need to think this through again.
puto
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Re: personal truth

Post by puto »

Lewis, Rick, "The Ultimate Guide," Philosophy Now, Anja Publications Ltd, Issue Four Knowledge, Digital. Answers by philosophers and not just more questions that cannot be answered.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

]
You don't understand my post.
[/quote]

no, if you're going to say something as though its true then it must stand as true. maybe that is what you might not understand. i realize in today's society in the free world everyone is lead to believe they are entitled and their views and opinions are supposed to be important and respected.

but in reality, that's not true at all. one's personal views are of no relevance what so ever. what should be sot is the truth, or the truth of the matter so on and so forth. which in most cases will be contrary to one's own views especially if one thinks that one's own views supersede the truth.
[/quote]


DP,

I have added to my original statement above, see if you can appreciate the content now, I have tried to clarify.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

DPMartin,

Actually I think your argument might be more with Spinoza. Check him out! Well, where do you think the concept of truth is, is it with the physical world as an object or is it with a conscious subject. Apparent reality is a biological readout thus it is biological reactions to aspects of what is call ultimate reality. Truth is relative to biological consciousness and truth and falsehood to the individual is his experience. To a group/society, it is an agreement, a collective belief about what is experienced. Ask yourself this question. If you wish to cross a great gorge over a bridge and everyone told you it was perfectly safe, but upon viewing the bridge you see it's badly rotted out. What are you going to do, authority says its safe, what are you going to do?
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