IF the universe was created THEN...

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Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm
Then there is no "simulation" either.
The data ..''Then there is no "simulation" either'' ...infers there was a simulation that cannot be.

The concept is known, and that which is known knows nothing. Which infers reality can be likened to a simulation.

The subjective experience that reality is a simulation cannot be known via an objective perspective. Subjective experiences are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness, the not-knowing known.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 pm
Now if you are unable to differentiate between a REAL, 'actual thing' from just an 'idea', then so be it. But, most people are able to.

''All concepts'' are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness. Consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality. What does consciousness look like? it looks like whatever it is looking at, and what consciousness is looking at, is known to it as a concept.

Concepts are not the looker, nor are concepts the knower, concepts are the looked upon and known intantaneously the moment they are looked upon. Knower and Known are one and the same reality in the instantaneous moment a concept arises.

If you do not agree, then so be it. But, most people are able to.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm
Then there is no "simulation" either.
The data ..''Then there is no "simulation" either'' ...infers...
No, it "implies." The word "simulation" implies at least two "realities." One is the simulation. The other is whatever it "simulates."
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 pm
Now if you are unable to differentiate between a REAL, 'actual thing' from just an 'idea', then so be it. But, most people are able to.

''All concepts'' are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.
To me, this is where you have been consistently contradicting "yourself".

That is; if you want to claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing, then that is, obviously, 'known'. But, when you also claim that the known cannot know anything, then this is where the contradiction lies.

You cannot claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing and/or the knower, but also claim that the knower cannot be known nor claim that that now knowing known knower cannot know anything, without this, literally, being a self-contradiction.

Can you really not see this yet?
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm Consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality.
Absolutely EVERY one are one of the same One Reality. There is no escaping this FACT. There is absolutely NOTHING outside of or beyond Reality, Itself. So, we do not have to keep going over this inescapable Truth.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm What does consciousness look like?
But consciousness is invisible to the human eyes, so asking what does an thing look like, can be a nonsensical question. But, consciousness can be seen, from the understandable sense. Which can be and will be SHOWN and proven further down the track.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm it looks like whatever it is looking at, and what consciousness is looking at, is known to it as a concept.
But consciousness remains the SAME, ALWAYS. Consciousness, itself, does not just turn into a giraffe, for example, when consciousness, itself, is looking at and/or seeing a giraffe. Consciousness remains consciousness, just like the giraffe remains a giraffe. They both remain the thing they are, for as long as they are that thing.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm Concepts are not the looker, nor are concepts the knower, concepts are the looked upon and known intantaneously the moment they are looked upon.
Yes, they are known by the knower, which you say is consciousness.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmKnower and Known are one and the same reality in the instantaneous moment a concept arises.
Seemingly very contradictory, AGAIN.

A knower does not instantly become what is known, or what it knows, in other words.

Thee knower, which is consciousness, itself, remains the same, no matter what it knows, nor how much it knows.

Because the human brain works by separating thee One into many, then when this and the above sentence is fully understood, then, and only then, can we move onto looking at and into what you are trying to say and explain here. Which is just how Everything is One and thee, inseparable, SAME.

But you have to allow human beings to evolve further to be able to catch up with what you ALREADY know, which is thee absolute Truth, and which you have been trying to argue for here.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmIf you do not agree, then so be it. But, most people are able to.
ANY one is 'able' to agree, (with any thing, by the way). But this NEVER infers that they do agree.

How many people that you know of agree with what you say here?
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:28 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm
Then there is no "simulation" either.
The data ..''Then there is no "simulation" either'' ...infers...
No, it "implies." The word "simulation" implies at least two "realities." One is the simulation. The other is whatever it "simulates."
No, the idea of two realities is absurd. I've explained to you a thousand times, nothing and everything are one and the same reality.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 pm
Now if you are unable to differentiate between a REAL, 'actual thing' from just an 'idea', then so be it. But, most people are able to.

''All concepts'' are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.
To me, this is where you have been consistently contradicting "yourself".

That is; if you want to claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing, then that is, obviously, 'known'. But, when you also claim that the known cannot know anything, then this is where the contradiction lies.

You cannot claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing and/or the knower, but also claim that the knower cannot be known nor claim that that now knowing known knower cannot know anything, without this, literally, being a self-contradiction.

Can you really not see this yet?
It's not my contradiction here...it's yours there...can you see this yet?

One cannot know the knowing. One is the knowing.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm Consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmAbsolutely EVERY one are one of the same One Reality. There is no escaping this FACT. There is absolutely NOTHING outside of or beyond Reality, Itself. So, we do not have to keep going over this inescapable Truth.
Shut up then.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm What does consciousness look like?
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmBut consciousness is invisible to the human eyes, so asking what does an thing look like, can be a nonsensical question. But, consciousness can be seen, from the understandable sense. Which can be and will be SHOWN and proven further down the track.
I do not agree.

From my understanding, consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality. So from my understanding, what is seen, is also what is looking. But you are welcome to have your own unique understanding that feels right for you, but don't deny me mine.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm it looks like whatever it is looking at, and what consciousness is looking at, is known to it as a concept.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmBut consciousness remains the SAME, ALWAYS. Consciousness, itself, does not just turn into a giraffe, for example, when consciousness, itself, is looking at and/or seeing a giraffe. Consciousness remains consciousness, just like the giraffe remains a giraffe. They both remain the thing they are, for as long as they are that thing.
So!

Consciousness could also be understood to the unchanging changer, the unmoved mover, we could all say the same thing in as many different ways there is possible, it's no big deal.

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmKnower and Known are one and the same reality in the instantaneous moment a concept arises.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmSeemingly very contradictory, AGAIN.

A knower does not instantly become what is known, or what it knows, in other words.

Thee knower, which is consciousness, itself, remains the same, no matter what it knows, nor how much it knows.

Because the human brain works by separating thee One into many, then when this and the above sentence is fully understood, then, and only then, can we move onto looking at and into what you are trying to say and explain here. Which is just how Everything is One and thee, inseparable, SAME.

But you have to allow human beings to evolve further to be able to catch up with what you ALREADY know, which is thee absolute Truth, and which you have been trying to argue for here.
There is no absolute truth that can be known. All apparent truth claims are the absolute relative expression of the ineffable unknowable, so get your facts straight..
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmIf you do not agree, then so be it. But, most people are able to.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmANY one is 'able' to agree, (with any thing, by the way). But this NEVER infers that they do agree.

How many people that you know of agree with what you say here?
People do not have to agree or disagree with human philosophical dialog, they can listen to what's being expressed, and make up their own mind about what it is they are attempting to understand. There is no absolute truth to be found, there is only the absolute and it's many appearances which are the absolute relative.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm


''All concepts'' are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.
To me, this is where you have been consistently contradicting "yourself".

That is; if you want to claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing, then that is, obviously, 'known'. But, when you also claim that the known cannot know anything, then this is where the contradiction lies.

You cannot claim that 'consciousness' is the knowing and/or the knower, but also claim that the knower cannot be known nor claim that that now knowing known knower cannot know anything, without this, literally, being a self-contradiction.

Can you really not see this yet?
It's not my contradiction here...it's yours there...can you see this yet?
What, EXACTLY, is supposedly and allegedly, "my contradiction there"?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am One cannot know the knowing. One is the knowing.
But, if and WHEN one can answer, properly and correctly, the question, 'Who am 'I'?', then that one KNOWS Thy Self, which IS thee Knowing.

How many times do I have to explain this, to 'you', before 'you' understand and comprehend this FACT?

Or, do you still REALLY BELIEVE that just because 'you' do not yet know some thing, then 'you' nor "others" will NEVER know that thing?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm Consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmAbsolutely EVERY one are one of the same One Reality. There is no escaping this FACT. There is absolutely NOTHING outside of or beyond Reality, Itself. So, we do not have to keep going over this inescapable Truth.
Shut up then.
Okay, but WHY?

So, ONLY 'you' can speak and be listened to, and heard?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm What does consciousness look like?
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmBut consciousness is invisible to the human eyes, so asking what does an thing look like, can be a nonsensical question. But, consciousness can be seen, from the understandable sense. Which can be and will be SHOWN and proven further down the track.
I do not agree.
I KNOW 'you' do not agree.

And my point has been, just because 'you', "dontaskme", do NOT YET KNOW some thing, at the moment of your existence, then this does NOT mean that that thing can NOT be KNOWN by "others" at ANY moment, prior, current, nor later.

By the way, what EXACTLY are you basing your, "I do not agree" statement on here?

Why do you not agree that 'consciousness', itself, could already be, or in the future be, understood?

The FACT that just about EVERY thing understood in the days when 'you' existed and when this was being written, was NEVER conceived of being understood should be enough EVIDENCE and PROOF that it is quite possible that 'consciousness', itself, is ALREADY understood by some and/or will be understood, by some, in the future.

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am From my understanding, consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same one reality.
From my understanding, I agree completely. In fact. this claim by you here can be PROVEN True.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am So from my understanding, what is seen, is also what is looking.
Okay. But if you want to make this claim, then you also have to say and claim that a giraffe is also a carrot. Would you say and claim this?

If no, then why not?

But, if you would say this, then okay. But I think you might find a LOT of disagreement.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am But you are welcome to have your own unique understanding that feels right for you, but don't deny me mine.
I would NEVER deny 'you' your own unique views and understanding. I have just been trying to get you to explain them more thoroughly and better.

I ALREADY KNOW WHY EVERY one has their own unique views and understanding. Getting 'you' to EXPLAIN yours better will help you LOOK further into HOW and WHY 'you' have obtained yours, then you will SEE and UNDERSTAND more, also.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm it looks like whatever it is looking at, and what consciousness is looking at, is known to it as a concept.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmBut consciousness remains the SAME, ALWAYS. Consciousness, itself, does not just turn into a giraffe, for example, when consciousness, itself, is looking at and/or seeing a giraffe. Consciousness remains consciousness, just like the giraffe remains a giraffe. They both remain the thing they are, for as long as they are that thing.
So!

Consciousness could also be understood to the unchanging changer, the unmoved mover, we could all say the same thing in as many different ways there is possible, it's no big deal.
But there could be a 'big deal'. That is; If one way of saying/explain things leads to as just as much, or more, confusion and misunderstanding, whereas if saying things another way leads to more understanding, which in turn leads to help in creating a better "world", for EVERY one. Some would, and will, say this is a 'big deal'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmKnower and Known are one and the same reality in the instantaneous moment a concept arises.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmSeemingly very contradictory, AGAIN.

A knower does not instantly become what is known, or what it knows, in other words.

Thee knower, which is consciousness, itself, remains the same, no matter what it knows, nor how much it knows.

Because the human brain works by separating thee One into many, then when this and the above sentence is fully understood, then, and only then, can we move onto looking at and into what you are trying to say and explain here. Which is just how Everything is One and thee, inseparable, SAME.

But you have to allow human beings to evolve further to be able to catch up with what you ALREADY know, which is thee absolute Truth, and which you have been trying to argue for here.
There is no absolute truth that can be known.
Is the saying, "There is no absolute truth that can be known", and absolute truth, which is already known?

Now, either you have to agree with your own statement here, which, in turn, refutes what you just said and claimed. Or,

You have to disagree with your own statement here, which, obviously, refutes what you just said and claimed.

See, EVERY time some one says something, which purports to claim that there is NO absolute/objective truth, then they have to admit that their claim is ALSO NOT absolutely/objectively true, either. And, thus could be completely Wrong. Which is; VERY CONTRADICTORY.

All apparent truth claims are the absolute relative expression of the ineffable unknowable, so get your facts straight..
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pmIf you do not agree, then so be it. But, most people are able to.
Age wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 pmANY one is 'able' to agree, (with any thing, by the way). But this NEVER infers that they do agree.

How many people that you know of agree with what you say here?
People do not have to agree or disagree with human philosophical dialog, they can listen to what's being expressed, and make up their own mind about what it is they are attempting to understand.
Of course they can. Which, by the way, is another way of just saying then end up 'agreeing', or 'disagreeing'. So, back to the question, how many people that you know of agree with what you say here?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am There is no absolute truth to be found,
Is this the 'absolute truth', and did you find this?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:45 am there is only the absolute and it's many appearances which are the absolute relative.
Is this thee Truth?

If you say, 'No', then you will have to admit that your sentence here is False, Wrong, and Incorrect.

But if you say, 'Yes', then you will have to admit that the prior sentence is False, Wrong, and Incorrect.

Therefore, you are in contradictory territory AGAIN.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:27 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:28 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:44 pm The data ..''Then there is no "simulation" either'' ...infers...
No, it "implies." The word "simulation" implies at least two "realities." One is the simulation. The other is whatever it "simulates."
No, the idea of two realities is absurd.
If so, then the very idea of reality as being a "simulation" is itself absurd.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:43 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:27 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:28 pm
No, it "implies." The word "simulation" implies at least two "realities." One is the simulation. The other is whatever it "simulates."
No, the idea of two realities is absurd.
If so, then the very idea of reality as being a "simulation" is itself absurd.
All stories are absurd, the notion of oneness is absurd, especially stories about there being a loving creator God, in fact, any relative idea about the absolute is absurd.

Including this...

Self-awareness isn't the pinnacle of consciousness - it's just an accidental byproduct of evolution, and a figment of our minds.

Reality doesn't have a story, it's mute of all knowledge, self awareness. Therefore, can be likened to a dream or simulation.

That which appears to have a story, aka the mind, is a byproduct of the brain, they are made of the exact same substance.

You cannot experience the simulation, You are the simulation.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:55 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:43 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:27 am

No, the idea of two realities is absurd.
If so, then the very idea of reality as being a "simulation" is itself absurd.
All stories are absurd,
Well, I've decided this conversation is, anyway. I'm out.
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Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:14 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:55 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:43 pm
If so, then the very idea of reality as being a "simulation" is itself absurd.
All stories are absurd,
Well, I've decided this conversation is, anyway. I'm out.
You were never in it.

You are NEVER not here.
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