How long ago was what?Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:17 pm
And roughly how long ago was that, Dontaskme?
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Hermit
Please be more specific?
How long ago was what?Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:17 pm
And roughly how long ago was that, Dontaskme?
Humbly
Hermit
When I was around the age of 4/5 years old. when I first became aware I was aware, when I became aware of myself as an individual self.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:24 pmDontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:19 pmHow long ago was what?Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:17 pm
And roughly how long ago was that, Dontaskme?
Humbly
Hermit
Please be more specific?
Roughly, how long ago was your enlightenment..?
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:26 pmWhen I was around the age of 4/5 years old. when I first became aware I was aware, when I became aware of myself as an individual self.
You're welcome.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:32 pm
Thank you.
I am not familiar with this version of enlightenment. Have you a definition? I am not sarcastic; I find it interesting.
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Hermit
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:43 pmYou're welcome.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:32 pm
Thank you.
I am not familiar with this version of enlightenment. Have you a definition? I am not sarcastic; I find it interesting.
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Hermit
I believe we each have our own definition, our own unique personal interpretation of what the word ''enlightenment'' means.
To me, it's not fixed concept, it's a personal belief structured by the mind, the word can mean anything, it can mean lots of different things to different people according to their unique beliefs.
What's your definition of the word ''enlightenment'' ?
Also, another thought crossed my mind....I was already enlightenment before the age of 4/5 years old, before I became aware I was aware of being a separate self.
There's nothing spiritual about enlightenment, to me, it's more of an organic and natural feeling, it's not something beyond the ordinary, everyday simple senses that are here right now. Defining something can only become known to us via an effect, so there must only be effects here...and that is what we relate to. We are the effects, we cause the effects by relating to the effects.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:53 pm
I don’t know what my definition would be.
But I believe that I have seen patters in those who claim to be spiritually enlightened; things they appear to have in common after their “experience”, so to say. Their stories are very different but their outcomes seem similar. It is interesting, I think.
Can one define something by its effect, perhaps...?
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Hermit
I can see logic in what you say here, Dontaskme.
True, your description does not sound spiritual. Doesn’t matter obviously, it’s just a different thing to what I’m used to hearing.
I agree with what you are saying...in the context of the old and past...but the actual realtime events of every new moment cannot be known to have happened in the EXACT moment they are happening, if they could, you would be a time machine and be able to stop something from happening before it happens.It's only on reflection via knowledge which is memory, that something is known to have happened, and this is what gives continuity of the enity that is your being, it's how you know you know you are existing.Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:39 pm
I don't think that's true. Just like children with no ego attachment to prior experience/memory... there's always newness... there's always more... and things can be naturally seen and known, without need for explanation.
Any old/past is not perpetuated or coveted. Any idea of self is not protected or justified. Supposed knowledge and memories are not needed, nor are they an obstacle. Every new moment need not be dependent on what has been before.
I think it just means there is a knowing that the I that I think exists, does not exist at all. It's quite a natural occuring phenomena that can and often spontaneously arise in one's thought stream. It can happen to anyone at any time.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:29 pmI can see logic in what you say here, Dontaskme.
But by that same logic; if there are common effects in those who claim spiritual enlightenment, there’d be some ground to suggest that there could be something to this spiritual-enlightenment thing after all.
Some people seem to think that enlightenment is what happens to a person and so they think that it's something to get that is outside of itself, that it has to reach out for, and so they call it a spiritual experience, when in fact, all the time the person is already enlightenment without doing anything to get it, or reach for it.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:29 pmTrue, your description does not sound spiritual. Doesn’t matter obviously, it’s just a different thing to what I’m used to hearing.
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Hermit
There is plenty to do, more for some than others. What must be done is clear away all the crap that obscures enlightenment. Even Buddha struggled for years until he said, this is my last stand. I move forward or my bones stay here forever. The final battle cleared the last delusions to reveal reality, unadorned.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:48 pm Some people seem to think that enlightenment is what happens to a person and so they think that it's something to get that is outside of itself, that it has to reach out for, and so they call it a spiritual experience, when in fact, all the time the person is already enlightenment without doing anything to get it, or reach for it.
People hear it is something to attain, and that's what they believe, so the idea sticks. But it's rare to hear that there is nothing to do or attain to reach enlightenment.
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This is not true in my experience. Many of whom I have spoken to, say just that; that they did nothing to reach their new perspective, but rather “stumbled across it”. Often they express a sense of unworthiness because of it too. But that’s because they see it differently to you of course..../it's rare to hear that there is nothing to do or attain to reach enlightenment.
Are you saying -- according to the opening post -- that when you were 4/5 years old, you had existential depression from confronting issues of existence: death, freedom, isolation and meaninglessness?