the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Known unknowns and unknown unknowns!

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Advocate
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Advocate »

a) There is such a thing as a false Scotsman
b) There is such a thing as a true Scotsman
c) The end
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by FlashDangerpants »

There's little future for you as a philosopher, but you might do well in the greetings card industry.
Advocate
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Advocate »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:21 pm There's little future for you as a philosopher, but you might do well in the greetings card industry.
In what sense is the argument not technically accurate? In what sense does it not accurately represent reality? How is it wrong? and Nuh-UH!
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Were you expecting to be taken seriously in this thread? You weren't actually attempting to address the Scotsman fallacy with that garbage were you?
Advocate
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Advocate »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:45 pm Were you expecting to be taken seriously in this thread? You weren't actually attempting to address the Scotsman fallacy with that garbage were you?
It's a full, complete, perfect, logical, necessary, actionable answer. Do you have a better one somehow?

Do you need a more technical formulation?

If false Scotsmen can exist, true Scotsman must exist.
False Scotsmen do exist.
∴ True Scotsmen exist.

Are you saying there are no false Scotsmen? You won't get very far with that refutation.
Skepdick
Posts: 5034
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:50 pm It's a full, complete, perfect, logical, necessary, actionable answer. Do you have a better one somehow?

Do you need a more technical formulation?

If false Scotsmen can exist, true Scotsman must exist.
False Scotsmen do exist.
∴ True Scotsmen exist.

Are you saying there are no false Scotsmen? You won't get very far with that refutation.
I don't need to "go" anywhere. There's nothing to refute until you make a point. You are appealing to classical logic. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%27s_paradox
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:50 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:45 pm Were you expecting to be taken seriously in this thread? You weren't actually attempting to address the Scotsman fallacy with that garbage were you?
It's a full, complete, perfect, logical, necessary, actionable answer. Do you have a better one somehow?

Do you need a more technical formulation?

If false Scotsmen can exist, true Scotsman must exist.
False Scotsmen do exist.
∴ True Scotsmen exist.

Are you saying there are no false Scotsmen? You won't get very far with that refutation.
Erm, okay. What exactly is your understanding of the no-true-scotsman fallacy? You know, like the erroneous reasoning that it is about, rather than the existence or othewise of fraudulent kilty bastards?
Advocate
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Advocate »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:57 pm
Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:50 pm It's a full, complete, perfect, logical, necessary, actionable answer. Do you have a better one somehow?

Do you need a more technical formulation?

If false Scotsmen can exist, true Scotsman must exist.
False Scotsmen do exist.
∴ True Scotsmen exist.

Are you saying there are no false Scotsmen? You won't get very far with that refutation.
I don't need to "go" anywhere. There's nothing to refute until you make a point. You are appealing to classical logic. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%27s_paradox
There is no paradox in reality. I haven't heard of this one before so let me go see what it is so i can clear it up for you. The argument is complete and perfect anyway. There's nothing arbitrary about the actual existence of false Scotsman or the logical necessity of true Scotsman thereby. I don't see how that "paradox" even applies.
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:32 pm The argument is complete and perfect anyway.
But you did composed this thread to take the piss, not as an attempt at philosophy as such, right?
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 4359
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Harbal »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:18 pm a) There is such a thing as a false Scotsman
b) There is such a thing as a true Scotsman
c) The end
Not quite the end; you forgot the Flying Scotsman.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9116
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Immanuel Can »

Harbal wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:46 pm
Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:18 pm a) There is such a thing as a false Scotsman
b) There is such a thing as a true Scotsman
c) The end
Not quite the end; you forgot the Flying Scotsman.
Hey, Harbal! You're back! Welcome back to the circus.

Forget the Flying Walendas...we've got Scotsmen.
Skepdick
Posts: 5034
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:32 pm There is no paradox in reality.
Precisely. The paradox is in logic itself.

P1. if this sentence is true, then Advocate is an idiot.
P2. This sentence is true.
C1 Advocate is an idiot.
Advocate
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Advocate »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:22 pm
Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:32 pm The argument is complete and perfect anyway.
But you did composed this thread to take the piss, not as an attempt at philosophy as such, right?
It might not be philosophical in the way some would like but it's a full and settled answer to the problem. No piss-taking intended.
uwot
Posts: 5031
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by uwot »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:49 amIt might not be philosophical in the way some would like but it's a full and settled answer to the problem. No piss-taking intended.
It's only an informal fallacy. So while the sentence 'No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge' is refuted by any Scotsman who happens to put sugar on his porridge, some sentences with the same form, for example 'No true philosopher writes the sort of bollocks that Advocate writes' are true.
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 4359
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: the "no true Scotsman" problem solved

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:09 am
Hey, Harbal! You're back! Welcome back to the circus.
Hello, IC, I like to drop in now and again to see if there have been any philosophical break throughs. :)
Post Reply