Knowledge
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Re: Knowledge
Nah.
Generally we always regard 'knowledge' as 'knowledge' per se without qualification at all.
Knowledge is fundamentally thoughts [a priori or a posteriori] and experiences.
But for these elements to qualify as knowledge, they have to be
What is a scientific fact within the Scientific Framework cannot be a legal fact or other basis of fact, e.g. common sense, economic, IT, medical, mathematics, geometry, social, political etc.
Thus there is no absolute knowledge of fact, but what is 'knowledge' is Justified True Belief and must always be attached to its specific framework and system.
Generally we always regard 'knowledge' as 'knowledge' per se without qualification at all.
Knowledge is fundamentally thoughts [a priori or a posteriori] and experiences.
But for these elements to qualify as knowledge, they have to be
- 1. Raised to the level of a belief, not a mere opinion.
2. justified as true and
3. qualified/conditioned within a specific Framework and System of Knowledge.
What is a scientific fact within the Scientific Framework cannot be a legal fact or other basis of fact, e.g. common sense, economic, IT, medical, mathematics, geometry, social, political etc.
Thus there is no absolute knowledge of fact, but what is 'knowledge' is Justified True Belief and must always be attached to its specific framework and system.
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Re: Knowledge
Knowledge pertains to that which is known and which can also be demonstrated either by logic or by empiricism
As you cannot know something if you believe it but cannot demonstrate it for that is just belief and nothing else
As you cannot know something if you believe it but cannot demonstrate it for that is just belief and nothing else
Re: Knowledge
We believe when our state of knowledge is not certain. Truth is a sort of knowledge that we are certain about it.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 am Nah.
Generally we always regard 'knowledge' as 'knowledge' per se without qualification at all.
Knowledge is fundamentally thoughts [a priori or a posteriori] and experiences.
But for these elements to qualify as knowledge, they have to beWhat is a legal fact has to be qualified within the specific legal framework. Example what is a legal fact in the USA [conditioned upon it legal framework and Constitution] may not be a legal fact is another sovereign nation.
- 1. Raised to the level of a belief, not a mere opinion.
2. justified as true and
3. qualified/conditioned within a specific Framework and System of Knowledge.
What is a scientific fact within the Scientific Framework cannot be a legal fact or other basis of fact, e.g. common sense, economic, IT, medical, mathematics, geometry, social, political etc.
Thus there is no absolute knowledge of fact, but what is 'knowledge' is Justified True Belief and must always be attached to its specific framework and system.
Re: Knowledge
True.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:30 am Knowledge pertains to that which is known and which can also be demonstrated either by logic or by empiricism
As you cannot know something if you believe it but cannot demonstrate it for that is just belief and nothing else
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Re: Knowledge
That is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:28 amWe believe when our state of knowledge is not certain.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 am Nah.
Generally we always regard 'knowledge' as 'knowledge' per se without qualification at all.
Knowledge is fundamentally thoughts [a priori or a posteriori] and experiences.
But for these elements to qualify as knowledge, they have to beWhat is a legal fact has to be qualified within the specific legal framework. Example what is a legal fact in the USA [conditioned upon it legal framework and Constitution] may not be a legal fact is another sovereign nation.
- 1. Raised to the level of a belief, not a mere opinion.
2. justified as true and
3. qualified/conditioned within a specific Framework and System of Knowledge.
What is a scientific fact within the Scientific Framework cannot be a legal fact or other basis of fact, e.g. common sense, economic, IT, medical, mathematics, geometry, social, political etc.
Thus there is no absolute knowledge of fact, but what is 'knowledge' is Justified True Belief and must always be attached to its specific framework and system.
A person has a belief when what he claimed is justified personally with some degree of conviction.
A theist is convinced with his personal justification, i.e. a belief God exists as real.
Einstein had a belief when he had personally proven his hypothesis E=MC2 is true.
Einstein's belief is only considered as knowledge when his hypothesis was tested, verified and justified by his Scientific peers in accordance to the requirements of the Scientific Methods.
The theists' belief, God exists as real cannot be knowledge since there is no credible basis and framework for it to be verified, tested repeatedly as true. As such a belief, God exists cannot be knowledge, i.e. justified true belief as qualified to a credible framework and system of knowledge.
Rather, knowledge is truth that is justified in relation to a specific "credible' framework and system of knowledge.Truth is a sort of knowledge that we are certain about it.
As such what is certain with knowledge is relative to the specified framework and system of knowledge.
The Scientific Framework overall do not claim 100% certainty.
Thus whatever is certain about a scientific theory cannot be 100% certain.
Re: Knowledge
We know the past but cannot control it. We control the future but cannot know it --Claude ShannonVeritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 am That is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.
By your criterion (knowledge is certain) knowledge is equivalent to history.
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Re: Knowledge
Where did I ever claim knowledge is certain??Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:58 amWe know the past but cannot control it. We control the future but cannot know it --Claude ShannonVeritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 am That is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.
By your criterion (knowledge is certain) knowledge is equivalent to history.
Note I stated above re Science the most credible form of knowledge at present;
- The Scientific Framework overall do not claim 100% certainty.
Thus whatever is 'certain' about a scientific theory cannot be 100% certain.
Re: Knowledge
Knowledge can be uncertain given my definition of knowledge (a set of thoughts). Thoughts only need to be meaningful. Some thought can be justified empirically or through logic or both (consistent theory) and some cannot. What is justified is called truth otherwise it is a belief.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 amThat is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:28 amWe believe when our state of knowledge is not certain.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 am Nah.
Generally we always regard 'knowledge' as 'knowledge' per se without qualification at all.
Knowledge is fundamentally thoughts [a priori or a posteriori] and experiences.
But for these elements to qualify as knowledge, they have to beWhat is a legal fact has to be qualified within the specific legal framework. Example what is a legal fact in the USA [conditioned upon it legal framework and Constitution] may not be a legal fact is another sovereign nation.
- 1. Raised to the level of a belief, not a mere opinion.
2. justified as true and
3. qualified/conditioned within a specific Framework and System of Knowledge.
What is a scientific fact within the Scientific Framework cannot be a legal fact or other basis of fact, e.g. common sense, economic, IT, medical, mathematics, geometry, social, political etc.
Thus there is no absolute knowledge of fact, but what is 'knowledge' is Justified True Belief and must always be attached to its specific framework and system.
A person has a belief when what he claimed is justified personally with some degree of conviction.
A theist is convinced with his personal justification, i.e. a belief God exists as real.
Einstein had a belief when he had personally proven his hypothesis E=MC2 is true.
Einstein's belief is only considered as knowledge when his hypothesis was tested, verified and justified by his Scientific peers in accordance to the requirements of the Scientific Methods.
The theists' belief, God exists as real cannot be knowledge since there is no credible basis and framework for it to be verified, tested repeatedly as true. As such a belief, God exists cannot be knowledge, i.e. justified true belief as qualified to a credible framework and system of knowledge.
No. The truth as it is stated is a sort of knowledge that is certain. Knowledge is either certain or uncertain. There is no other option. We are dealing with the truth in the first case and belief in the second case.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 amRather, knowledge is truth that is justified in relation to a specific "credible' framework and system of knowledge.Truth is a sort of knowledge that we are certain about it.
As such what is certain with knowledge is relative to the specified framework and system of knowledge.
The Scientific Framework overall do not claim 100% certainty.
Thus whatever is certain about a scientific theory cannot be 100% certain.
Re: Knowledge
Right here:
You are literally saying: If it's uncertain then it's not knowledge.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 am That is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.
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Re: Knowledge
You are too literal and did not read the explanations that followed;Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:48 amRight here:
You are literally saying: If it's uncertain then it's not knowledge.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 am That is an oxymoron, a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.
The sequence is always that beliefs need to be justified to be true, then it only becomes 'knowledge' [JTB] after that.
Knowledge is uncertain [never 100% certain] but beliefs can be "certain" as justified within a specific framework of knowledge.
Example, Einstein was certain of his beliefs re E=MC2, but as a scientific knowledge it cannot be 100% certain.
Re: Knowledge
I dunno how to interpret this.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:53 am a state of knowledge can never be a belief that is uncertain.
Knowledge is uncertain. (A = C)
Belief is uncertain. (B = C)
Therefore (by transitivity) knowledge is Belief. (A = B)
Both Knowledge and Belief are uncertain!
A = B = C
Your problem is one of demarcation.
Where does "uncertainty" end?
Where does "certainty" begin?
Anything less than 100% certainty is uncertainty.
For me "certainty" begins at the point that I am willing to act on my beliefs/knowledge.
Certainty is action.
Uncertainty is inaction.
All of my knowledge is uncertain.
My actions are certain.
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Re: Knowledge
if Wile E Coyote had knowledge, the anvil bit wouldn't work...
no ledge...
nevermind, the anvil bit doesn't work anyway
-Imp
no ledge...
nevermind, the anvil bit doesn't work anyway
-Imp
Re: Knowledge
No, thoughts are not knowledge. See:
And even your own:surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:30 am ...you cannot know something if you believe it but cannot demonstrate it for that is just belief and nothing else
is much closer. Knowledge serves towards the negation of belief-based uncertainty.
Knowledge = certainty; no degree(s) of uncertainty (as in: certainly not to be believed)
Belief = one or more degrees of relative uncertainty
If you throw in the operators 'all' and 'not' (+/-) as related to current discussions regarding Boolean logic and true/false reductions,
{to know all (thus) not to believe} tends towards any possible all-knowing state, theist/atheist-invariant, whereas
{to believe all (thus) not to know} captures any/all belief-based ignorances lacking knowledge which would otherwise negate.
This bi-directional inversive symmetry captures the only two extremes which can capture the orientation of any/all beings:
those who are belief-oriented, and those who are knowledge-oriented. Only one tends towards all-knowing.
Apply to "believer vs. unbeliever" to understand why the world is the way it is.