I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

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nothing
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I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

Post by nothing »

I think, therefor I am.
-Descartes
I see two fundamental problems.

i. one can not think less they exist, and
ii. one could not even begin to think less
having knowingly been born in the mind
as a thought: "I think, therefor I am!"

It is comically absurd to me.

But it highlights a fundamental problem with philosophy I would like to contribute a manner of thinking to: confusion as to what constitutes a conscious knowledge of self. To demonstrate this, I will render similar utterances honoring Descartes' beginning with a thought in-and-of-itself:
I think, therefor I am.
instead of a justification of being, becomes:
I think, therefor I know I am able to think.
which, while acknowledging the ability of the self, is still lacking a definitive knowledge of self as found in:
I think not, knowing I am willing not to think.
which accomplishes so much:
i. makes a clear distinction between the philosopher-to-be and his own thought process (ie. I think not...)
ii. acknowledges presence of self (ie. ...knowing I am...)
iii. demonstrates power of will (ie. ...knowing I am willing not...)

rendering such utterances as:
I think I am...(?)
I think therefor I am...(??)
I believe I am...(???)
all relatively certainly ignorant
as it is certainly possible to suffer
believing, thinking, hoping (etc.)
in anything, while merely being only desired-to-be,
rather than consciously acknowledged as-is,
which is certainly the blunder of Descartes
(and perhaps so-called infallible religious messengers)
identifying by way of (a) thought (and/or belief).
It is therefor in-and-of the philosophers' (or lunatic's) own mind
as a result of a practical ignorance of their own self.

By swapping "think" with "believe":
I believe, therefor I am.
is equally absurd.
I believe I am.
is certainly ignorant.
I believe, therefor I know I am able to believe.
derives the same as "think": acknowledgement of the ability of self, however lacking knowledge of the self.
I believe not, knowing I am willing not to believe.
and this is just as sound as "think": satisfies a full conscious acknowledgement of self.
'All knowing is belief, but not all belief is knowing'.
is thus extremely absurd, as well. Knowledge is certainly distinct from belief thus:
belief - as defined by containing one (or more) degrees of uncertainty
knowledge - as defined by containing no degrees of uncertainty (as in: certainly *not*)
and as to the contention that one must "believe" even in what one knows, it is the same kind as the blunder of Descartes: identifying by way of a "belief"-in-and-of-itself, rather than a distinctly practical knowledge absent any/all need for belief. Knowledge of (perhaps ones own) ignorance *is* such a knowledge necessarily requiring the absence of any such belief, recalling:
I believe I am...
as being certainly ignorant, and arguably it would distinctly take a "thinker" and/or "believer" to "think" and/or "believe" that:
I know I am willing to...
I know I am willing *not* to...
are somehow *not* otherwise much more suitable to attest to a conscious acknowledgement of self rather than merely "believing" and/or "thinking" (therefor!) to-be...

The implications of this should be clear: if a person attaches to (ie. identifies as) their own psychology (ie. ignorance of self) such that the self is taken *as* the psychology, this certainly explains lunacy viz. the kind that has people "believing" themselves to be final messengers of a god and that ones own thought process is the voice of an angel of said god. It would take a "believer" to "believe" such to be true.

I therefor offer recommendation to retry for absurdity:
All knowing is belief, but not all belief is knowing.
to:
All belief is ignorance, but not all ignorance is belief.
which correctly designates "belief" as fundamentally ignorant owing to its one (or more) degrees of uncertainty. In so knowing, so deriving the correction to Descartes'
I think, therefor I am.
as simply being backwards:
I am, therefor I (may) think.
and the backwards nature of Descartes' utterance is equally applicable to the "believing" religious lunatic who similarly identifies by way of their own psychology, while (as in: owing to) having a practical ignorance of their own self.

To close: it follows that the first fundamental knowledge/ignorance is certainly of ones own self. How can one even begin to try for a god knowing not the thing (ie. themselves) that exists in relation to it? If philosophy can correct this blunder of Descartes in like manner, it can lead to a discovery viz. broad-spectrum defense against the imposition of any/all "belief"-based ideologies as being necessarily ignorant for lacking conscious knowledge of the degrees of uncertainty pertaining to the "beliefs" upon which the ideologies themselves stand. Any less: "belief"-based ignorance, which is precisely what any/all belief *absent* conscious knowledge of its own uncertainties is - ignorance-in-and-of-itself.
Last edited by nothing on Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:44 am, edited 6 times in total.
Impenitent
Posts: 4369
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

Post by Impenitent »

I therefore I

...ones ontology shouldn't rely on the belief in language after the fact

-Imp
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

nothing wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:24 pm This has been bothering me for some time. I must break silence.
I think, therefor I am.
-Descartes
I see two fundamental problems.

i. one can not think less they exist, and
ii. one could not even begin to think less
having knowingly been born in the mind
as a thought: "I think, therefor I am!"

It is comically absurd to me.

But it highlights a fundamental problem with philosophy I would like to contribute a manner of thinking to: confusion as to what constitutes a conscious knowledge of self. To demonstrate this, I will render similar utterances honoring Descartes' beginning with a thought in-and-of-itself:
I think, therefor I am.
instead of a justification of being, becomes:
I think, therefor I know I am able to think.
which, while acknowledging the ability of the self, is still lacking a definitive knowledge of self as found in:
I think not, knowing I am willing not to think.
which accomplishes so much:
i. makes a clear distinction between the philosopher-to-be and his own thought process (ie. I think not...)
ii. acknowledges presence of self (ie. ...knowing I am...)
iii. acknowledges (control of) will of self (ie. ...knowing I am willing not...)

rendering such utterances as:
I think I am...(?)
I think therefor I am...(??)
I believe I am...(???)
all relatively certainly ignorant
as it is certainly possible to suffer
believing, thinking, hoping (etc.)
in anything, but is only merely desired-to-be
rather than consciously acknowledged as-is,
which is certainly the blunder of Descartes
(and perhaps so-called infallible religious messengers)
identifying by way of (a) thought.
It is therefor in-and-of the philosophers' (or lunatic's) own mind
as a practical ignorance of knowing their own self.

By swapping "think" with "believe":
I believe, therefor I am.
is equally absurd.
I believe I am.
is certainly ignorant.
I believe, therefor I know I am able to believe.
derives the same as "think": acknowledgement of the ability of self, however lacking knowledge of the self.
I believe not, knowing I am willing not to believe.
and this is just as sound as "think": satisfies a full conscious acknowledgement of self.
'All knowing is belief, but not all belief is knowing'.
is thus extremely absurd, as well. Knowledge is certainly distinct from belief thus:
belief - as defined by containing one (or more) degrees of uncertainty
knowledge - as defined by containing no degrees of uncertainty (as in: certainly *not*)
and as to the contention that one must "believe" even in what one knows, it is the same kind as the blunder of Descartes: identifying by way of a "belief"-in-and-of-itself, rather than a distinctly practical knowledge absent any/all need for belief. Knowledge of (perhaps ones own) ignorance *is* such a knowledge necessarily requiring the absence of any such belief, recalling:
I believe I am...
as being certainly ignorant, and arguably it would distinctly take a "thinker" and/or "believer" to "think" and/or "believe" that:
I know I am willing to...
I know I am willing *not* to...
are somehow *not* otherwise much more suitable to attest to a conscious acknowledgement of self rather than than merely "believing" and/or "thinking" (therefor!) to-be...

The implications of this should be clear: if a person attaches to (ie. identifies as) their own psychology (ie. ignorance of self) such that the self is taken *as* the psychology, this certainly explains lunacy viz. the kind that has people "believing" themselves to be final messengers of a god and that ones own thought process is the voice of an angel of said god. It would take a "believer" to "believe" such to be true.

I therefor offer recommendation to retry for absurdity:
All knowing is belief, but not all belief is know.
to:
All belief is ignorance, but not all ignorance is belief.
which correctly designates "belief" as fundamentally ignorant owing to its one (or more) degrees of uncertainty. In so knowing, so deriving the correction to Descartes'
I think, therefor I am.
as simply being backwards:
I am, therefor I (may) think.
and the backwards nature of Descartes' utterance is equally applicable to the "believing" religious lunatic who similarly identifies by way of their own psychology, while (as in: owing to) having a practical ignorance of their own self.

To close: it follows that the first fundamental knowledge/ignorance is certainly of ones own self. How can one even begin to try for a god knowing not the thing (ie. themselves) that exists in relation to it? If philosophy can correct this blunder of Descartes in like manner, it can lead to a discovery viz. broad-spectrum defense against the imposition of any/all "belief"-based ideologies as being necessarily ignorant for lacking conscious knowledge of the degrees of uncertainty pertaining to the "beliefs" upon which the ideologies themselves stand. Any less: "belief"-based ignorance, which is precisely what any/all belief *absent* conscious knowledge of its own uncertainties is - ignorance-in-and-of-itself.
It is absurd.

((I)T)-->((I)A)

=

((I)T-->A)

=

"Think" therefore "Am", where I exists in these multiple contexts as an underlying context. Basically it is a tautology where:

1. "I" is expressed in a variety of ways, thus recursive.

2. "Think" is expressed through "am".

3. Thus it is a tautology within a tautology.
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Dontaskme
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Re: I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

Post by Dontaskme »

The confusion can become clarity when you imagine the Self to be like a mirror.

First a thought is needed to see the I AM in which the thought is appearing.

And the I AM is needed for thought to be known and recognised by I AM

SELF is just another way of saying I AM... Self is like a two way mirror.

Both backward and forward thinking is needed to see the two sides of the same ONE MIRROR

As for the I AM ... Looking not... I am looked upon. The I of All that is looks neither out (forward) nor in (backward).

Only the mind aka ''thought'' moves back and forth.. and not the I AM

Mind is the constant changing within the constant constant unchanging changeless.

______

Sorry if this makes no sense. But it makes perfect sense to me. :D Just enjoy your philosophy how ever which way you see it. :D

.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: I Think, Therefor I Am (confused!)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:59 am The confusion can become clarity when you imagine the Self to be like a mirror.

First a thought is needed to see the I AM in which the thought is appearing.

And the I AM is needed for thought to be known and recognised by I AM

SELF is just another way of saying I AM... Self is like a two way mirror.

Both backward and forward thinking is needed to see the two sides of the same ONE MIRROR

As for the I AM ... Looking not... I am looked upon. The I of All that is looks neither out (forward) nor in (backward).

Only the mind aka ''thought'' moves back and forth.. and not the I AM

Mind is the constant changing within the constant constant unchanging changeless.

______

Sorry if this makes no sense. But it makes perfect sense to me. :D Just enjoy your philosophy how ever which way you see it. :D

.
That "mirror" is recurssion theory. Recursion theory applies to all the sciences in one degree or another as well as language. It is simple: forms repeat . That is it.
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