Nobody Knows.

Known unknowns and unknown unknowns!

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Dontaskme
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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:54 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm

Are you open to at least theoretically to the difference between nothing and no-thing?
Yes, The difference being ''nothing'' is not-known. And ''no thing'' is known. Therefore, any difference is purely imaginary since there is only here this immediate ''not-knowing knowing known''
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
They both can be considered beyond the limitations of time and space.
For this one here...What is beyond the limitations of time and space is the Awareness of time and space. Time and space being the Dual known aspect of Non-dual Awareness that cannot be known. Time and space being the dream of separation where there is none.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
You assert that everything is an expression of nothing so does not exist.
No I don't. I assert every thing is an expression of the infinte aka Awareness that is beyond time and space and yet is time and space within the dream of separation where there is none...for this one here, there is only THIS RIGHT HERE AND NOW

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
As a monist I believe every material expression experienced in the world is a lawful expression of no-thing within lawful levels of reality.
Maybe so, but that expression means nothing to me except a conceptual story arising in Awareness.

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
Where the universe is a lawful expression for no-thing the conception arising in human beings is pure imagination for nothing
Again, this expression is a conceptual story arising in Awareness, within the dream of separation where there is none.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
Do you sense difference between nothing and no-thing? Could your conception of nothing really be a mistaken experience of no-thing?
For this one here...What is beyond the limitations of time and space is the Awareness of time and space. Time and space being the Dual known aspect of Non-dual Awareness that cannot be known. Time and space being the dream of separation where there is none.

Nick, no two people are going to paint the picture of absolute reality in quite the same way, although it's the same brush being used, a picture of it will often appear different according to the painters unique perception, kind of like different strokes for different folks...in essence the screen of Awareness aka the canvas on which the painting is revealed remains the same no matter how much paint is added to it.
''I often describe the Absolute as Pure Infinite Potential, prior to being or becoming anything. It is forever unborn, yet gives birth to all of existence. About our ultimate nature nothing can be said; it must be revealed.''

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Nick_A » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am

DaM

''I often describe the Absolute as Pure Infinite Potential, prior to being or becoming anything. It is forever unborn, yet gives birth to all of existence. About our ultimate nature nothing can be said; it must be revealed.''


We begin with the same premise. But we differ as to what the universe is. You deny its meaning and purpose as the body of God
No I don't. I assert every thing is an expression of the infinte aka Awareness that is beyond time and space and yet is time and space within the dream of separation where there is none...for this one here, there is only THIS RIGHT HERE AND NOW
You seem to be saying that you are God since there is no separation. I maintain that separation of qualities of matter is essential for the meaning and purpose of our universe. If we are all God, there can be no conscious evolution since we are God. For me, the universe is a lawful creation and not just a whim of our Source. The universe is a logical expression of being in which qualities of being serve both the processes of involution and evolution. Man's potential for conscious evolution gives us the reason for studying the Ways. Without the potential for conscious evolution we may as well just be a figment of imagination. It wouldn't make a difference.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:16 am

Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
We begin with the same premise. But we differ as to what the universe is. You deny its meaning and purpose as the body of God
I don't deny anything. For me to deny is to refute the irrefutable, it's a pointless activity.
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
You seem to be saying that you are God since there is no separation. I maintain that separation of qualities of matter is essential for the meaning and purpose of our universe.
But like I've mentioned many times before, only within the dream of separation does meaning and purpose arise. Or put another way, separation is what mind puts there, via thought, which is just another concept for imagination of which there is no actual sight of except as an empty image, or symbol or word.
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
If we are all God, there can be no conscious evolution since we are God.
We are God in limitation, in a forgetful state of our limitlessness. God doesn't have to limit itself, but does so in the desire to understand and experience it's unlimited potential, which can only be revealed in a limited sense, hence the duality of the space time continuum, aka the dream of separation occuring in the eternal infinite now.
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
For me, the universe is a lawful creation and not just a whim of our Source.

The universe is a logical expression of being in which qualities of being serve both the processes of involution and evolution. Man's potential for conscious evolution gives us the reason for studying the Ways. Without the potential for conscious evolution we may as well just be a figment of imagination. It wouldn't make a difference.
That's true in that any difference is purely imagined. The way I see it, everything is changing, meaning nothing is changing.
Awareness is the unchanging, unmoving viewer of the kaleidoscope of all things moving and having their being. Many patterns, colours and permutations appear to that which never appeared. .aka God dreams itself alive...and yet everything in the dream is dead..it's an unavoidable paradox.

.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Nick_A » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:44 pm

DAM
But like I've mentioned many times before, only within the dream of separation does meaning and purpose arise. Or put another way, separation is what mind puts there, via thought, which is just another concept for imagination of which there is no actual sight of except as an empty image, or symbol or word.
You believe separation is a dream and I believe it to be an essential reality. Is there any way to verify it one way or another and is there anything to be gained by making the attempts to do so?

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:06 am

Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:44 pm
DAM
But like I've mentioned many times before, only within the dream of separation does meaning and purpose arise. Or put another way, separation is what mind puts there, via thought, which is just another concept for imagination of which there is no actual sight of except as an empty image, or symbol or word.
You believe separation is a dream and I believe it to be an essential reality. Is there any way to verify it one way or another and is there anything to be gained by making the attempts to do so?
Essential reality for human in it's attempt to win is a losing game.
The evidence,the truth is, nature provides us with the scenario of ferocious predator and horrified prey.
It's an obvious contradiction of benevolence. Living for feel good short lived highs and Disney World scenarios is pure dreamscape escapism from what in reality is actually empty and hollow.

"It's difficult to believe in the dreadful but quiet war, lurking just below the serene facade of nature." Charles Darwin




----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Disclaimer: the above view is my personal opinion.
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space, everything else is opinion.
In other words all conjecture. All we know is we know nothing.
]

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Nick_A » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:06 am
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:44 pm
DAM
But like I've mentioned many times before, only within the dream of separation does meaning and purpose arise. Or put another way, separation is what mind puts there, via thought, which is just another concept for imagination of which there is no actual sight of except as an empty image, or symbol or word.
You believe separation is a dream and I believe it to be an essential reality. Is there any way to verify it one way or another and is there anything to be gained by making the attempts to do so?
Essential reality for human in it's attempt to win is a losing game.
The evidence,the truth is, nature provides us with the scenario of ferocious predator and horrified prey.
It's an obvious contradiction of benevolence. Living for feel good short lived highs and Disney World scenarios is pure dreamscape escapism from what in reality is actually empty and hollow.

"It's difficult to believe in the dreadful but quiet war, lurking just below the serene facade of nature." Charles Darwin




----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Disclaimer: the above view is my personal opinion.
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space, everything else is opinion.
In other words all conjecture. All we know is we know nothing.
]
You ignore the potential for Man's conscious evolution leading to a quality of being in which objective human meaning and purpose is a reality. The world is without meaning. It is a machine transforming substances. Can Man evolve to be more than a slave to this machine leading from dust to dust? I believe Man has this potential. Without this potential the essence of religion is meaningless.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:47 am

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

You ignore the potential for Man's conscious evolution leading to a quality of being in which objective human meaning and purpose is a reality.
No, I'm not in ignorance of it, I am in fact very aware of it. As a belief structure, meaning, I understand it as a quality of the human condition to want meaning and purpose in it's life. For such attributes are the human imprint on what is actually a non-conceptual reality.Impositions are always fictional wishful thinking. Humans are story tellers within the illusory dream of separation.

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
The world is without meaning. It is a machine transforming substances.
Yes, I agree.
Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
Can Man evolve to be more than a slave to this machine leading from dust to dust?
No
Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
I believe Man has this potential. Without this potential the essence of religion is meaningless.
Religion is a human construction, a way of controlling the masses and soothing away the existential crisis that is inherent within the human conditioned and indoctrinated consciousness. The mind of the human is a ''thought'' mechanism unique to humans as the brain got too big causing the sense of separation, which is nothing more than an artificially imposed apparent angst that once embedded has to be transcended to reveal actual truth.

In reality: The universe does not care about human existence. LOVE is just a swirling mass of chemicals intent only for procreation. It's a made up word by humans to trap and keep the human being in a state of suffering. Love stories of evolving to higher consciousness are just beliefs that humans apply to their lives so they can get through their empty meaningless lives without screaming too much. In reality there is nothing to do here but suffer long and hard for a fleeting moment of pleasure. Humans are no different to the rest of natures struggle to survive, they have no more importance or significance here than the life of a mosquito.

.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Nick_A » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:37 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:47 am
Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

You ignore the potential for Man's conscious evolution leading to a quality of being in which objective human meaning and purpose is a reality.
No, I'm not in ignorance of it, I am in fact very aware of it. As a belief structure, meaning, I understand it as a quality of the human condition to want meaning and purpose in it's life. For such attributes are the human imprint on what is actually a non-conceptual reality.Impositions are always fictional wishful thinking. Humans are story tellers within the illusory dream of separation.

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
The world is without meaning. It is a machine transforming substances.
Yes, I agree.
Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
Can Man evolve to be more than a slave to this machine leading from dust to dust?
No
Nick_A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm
I believe Man has this potential. Without this potential the essence of religion is meaningless.
Religion is a human construction, a way of controlling the masses and soothing away the existential crisis that is inherent within the human conditioned and indoctrinated consciousness. The mind of the human is a ''thought'' mechanism unique to humans as the brain got too big causing the sense of separation, which is nothing more than an artificially imposed apparent angst that once embedded has to be transcended to reveal actual truth.

In reality: The universe does not care about human existence. LOVE is just a swirling mass of chemicals intent only for procreation. It's a made up word by humans to trap and keep the human being in a state of suffering. Love stories of evolving to higher consciousness are just beliefs that humans apply to their lives so they can get through their empty meaningless lives without screaming too much. In reality there is nothing to do here but suffer long and hard for a fleeting moment of pleasure. Humans are no different to the rest of natures struggle to survive, they have no more importance or significance here than the life of a mosquito.

.
Most will either believe or deny universal truths and the truth of the relativity of Man's being. It is their way and that is OK. I m drawn to the minority with the need and courage to verify the truth of themselves. They are willing to have the experiences necessary to verify the truth of the human condition. They are willing to endure inner empiricism and gradually become able to "know thyself."

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Needleman_93.html

A friend of mine told me recently that all his life he had been interested in the meaning of things and, naturally, that led him to a study of philosophy. What he found there, he said, was one of the greatest disappointments of his life. Instead of tackling the exciting questions, most philosophers seemed to be snared in the problems of dissecting language, and probing the nuances of grammar and semi­arbitrary logic. There was no vitality in this work; it was all dry academic, intellectual gamesmanship. He was looking for philosophers who, as he said, "really care about reality"; who would apply their philosophical training to help cut through the intellectual morass, clarify methodologies, and get back to the relationship between reality and experience. He very kindly described me as one of those philosophers who "really cares about reality".

As it happens, I believe there is a growing number of younger philosophers who are interested in getting to the heart of the matter--about what we mean by "reality" and the central role of experience. What draws them, and what originally drew me, to the whole area of philosophy is a quest for meaning. I discovered that the mind by itself cannot complete the philosophic quest. As Kant decisively argued, the mind can ask questions the mind alone cannot answer. For me, this is where the juice of real philosophical investigation begins to flow. I believe it is precisely where intellect hits its limits that the important questions of philosophy start to come alive.

Mainstream academic philosophy has for a long time tried to answer these fundamental questions with that part of the mind we call intellect. Frequently the difficulties encountered were so great, the logical tangles so confusing, that many philosophers decided such questions were meaningless, and some even began to ridicule anyone who dared ask "What is reality?" "What is the meaning of life?" "Is there life after death?" "What is the soul?" "Does God exist?" Yet these are the questions of the heart. These are the questions that matter most to people--not whether the syntax and deep structures of our language can ever truly represent real knowledge. The meaningful questions, these " questions of the heart", rise up in human beings because of something intrinsic to our nature, an innate striving which Plato called Eros.

One aspect of this is the striving to participate in a reality greater than ourselves. It is a yearning, a hunger, a force we may recognize as love. This drive is as much, if not more, a part of our nature as the sexual, physical and animal desires which psychoanalysis and mainstream psychiatry have identified as parts of our essential nature. Our drive for understanding, for participation in a higher reality, shapes our psyche as much as anything else...........................................
Most are content to either blindly believe or blindly deny as you are doing. My concern is with the minority willing to verify by becoming able to Know Thyself. The world needs them but they are decreasing in number in favor of technologically inspired enchantment which will produce its opposite the horrors of which we will verify.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:40 pm

Questions only pertain to the sense of a separate self..where there isn’t one.

Man cannot live without his illusions.

.

Nick_A
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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Nick_A » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:24 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:40 pm
Questions only pertain to the sense of a separate self..where there isn’t one.

Man cannot live without his illusions.

.
No. The false personality created by the fallen human condition cannot live without its acquired illusions and it doesn't want to die

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:44 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:24 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:40 pm
Questions only pertain to the sense of a separate self..where there isn’t one.

Man cannot live without his illusions.

.
No. The false personality created by the fallen human condition cannot live without its acquired illusions and it doesn't want to die
No. There is no fallen human condition except within the dream of separation acquired by KNOWLEDGE - as and through the acquistion of concepts KNOWN...and that which is KNOWN know nothing...there is no fall or sacrifice, except in this CONCEPTION/DREAM
The personal and the impersonal are appearances only, like characters within a nightly dream.


Dream characters do not die because they have no life. Only the mind is born not YOU

There is only the DREAM

.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:37 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am
In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.
The above is very stupid and you are implying you know the above OP, i.e. "Nobody Knows".

The reality is;
  • View 1: Somebody Knows
    View 2: Nobody Knows
What is critical is one must qualify the context instead of insisting on view 2; 'nobody know'.
At the same time;
Each of the above perspective is valid and one cannot ignore one for the other.

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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:12 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:37 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am
In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.
The above is very stupid and you are implying you know the above OP, i.e. "Nobody Knows".

The reality is;
  • View 1: Somebody Knows
    View 2: Nobody Knows
What is critical is one must qualify the context instead of insisting on view 2; 'nobody know'.
At the same time;
Each of the above perspective is valid and one cannot ignore one for the other.
Just more empty concepts, more paint on the blank screen of reality. Yawn!!


Undefiled knowledge is truth, all else is a belief, a lie, a fiction.

.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:25 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:12 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:37 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am
In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.
The above is very stupid and you are implying you know the above OP, i.e. "Nobody Knows".

The reality is;
  • View 1: Somebody Knows
    View 2: Nobody Knows
What is critical is one must qualify the context instead of insisting on view 2; 'nobody know'.
At the same time;
Each of the above perspective is valid and one cannot ignore one for the other.
Just more empty concepts, more paint on the blank screen of reality. Yawn!!


Undefiled knowledge is truth, all else is a belief, a lie, a fiction.
Problem is you are not jiving and grooving with reality.
Get medicated and the problem will be eased.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Nobody Knows.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:53 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:25 am
Problem is you are not jiving and grooving with reality.
Get medicated and the problem will be eased.
Problem is you have no way of knowing or proving what this one here is doing, and that's makes you look like an idiot to think you do. the The world is full of idiots, you are not alone.

Take care of the penny's and the pounds will take care of themselves.

Mind your own business, every one else's business is taken.

Just remember, it's difficult to see from the inside of a Cow. I AM the 0 inside the Cow.



.

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