And if that's true then the prime directives are a subset of computation.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:05 pmThat is a positive statement then; hence we are left with all "meaning" as simultaneous positive/negative/neutral values as observed in the prime directives.Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:50 pmSure. Negative statements are good grounding for epistemology.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 pm Actually the penguin is defined relative to the nature of flying, in these respects it maintains a neutral nature. An inference is made. From this it may be deduced the penguin in neutral in regards to flying.
"No penguin eats mammals" is a negative inference. From this it may be deduced what the penguin is not.
Inference and deduction result in positive, negative and neutral terms.
It's what epistemology is.
The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:31 pmAnd if that's true then the prime directives are a subset of computation.
False; All compution is an assumed axiom, it is formless.
True; the definition of compution as formless, in its seperation to other axioms takes on form.
True and false; Compution is formless on its own terms, it is "form" through other axioms. It does not exist on its own terms.
- Speakpigeon
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm
- Location: Paris, France, EU
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
I don't think there is any valid conclusion we could understand that could not be known literally through an intuition. I myself had a logical intuition once that I still can't explain today. So, Intuition 1 - Thought 0.philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:56 pmIntuition is good for survival, but you cannot understand the workings of the universe for instance, using intuition. You cannot grasp advanced science with intuition. You have to have abstract thought of a very high quality of course using purely logical reasoning - complex logic.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:30 pmI don't think you can go behind intuition, let alone read the "source code". All we have is our intuition and rational methods of inquiry. But dismissing intuition is really insane. Unfortunately, it has become the dogma of our time: don't trust intuition. I wonder how humans managed to survive at all, apparently for more than 400,000 years, in a world without formal methods.philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm You can't trust intuition. Never. Intuition is a GUI (Graphical User Interface) for the brain to work with, but as with other software, if you really want to understand stuff, you go behind the GUI and read the source code itself.
Intuition is only simple logic, it cannot be used for advanced mathematics, unless you are a math genius.
Einstein arrived at the main ideas behind Special Relativity and General Relativity using his intuition. Many mathematicians have explained how intuition was essential in finding the proof of a theorem. We all do the same, at our level, in the course of our lives. You are opposing intuition and thought, as if the two didn't interact and communicate. They do, extensively.
EB
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
From https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-be-ra ... 2e96dd4d1aphilosopher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:56 pm Intuition is good for survival, but you cannot understand the workings of the universe for instance, using intuition. You cannot grasp advanced science with intuition. You have to have abstract thought of a very high quality of course using purely logical reasoning - complex logic.
Intuition is only simple logic, it cannot be used for advanced mathematics, unless you are a math genius.
Survival comes first, truth, understanding, and science later.
you do not need science to survive (we’ve done it for several hundred million years) , but you need to survive to do science.
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
In the near (or far) future, science will be needed for our future survival. When the sun dies, we'll need science to survive.Logik wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:21 pmFrom https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-be-ra ... 2e96dd4d1aphilosopher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:56 pm Intuition is good for survival, but you cannot understand the workings of the universe for instance, using intuition. You cannot grasp advanced science with intuition. You have to have abstract thought of a very high quality of course using purely logical reasoning - complex logic.
Intuition is only simple logic, it cannot be used for advanced mathematics, unless you are a math genius.
Survival comes first, truth, understanding, and science later.
you do not need science to survive (we’ve done it for several hundred million years) , but you need to survive to do science.
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Sure. We learned that from the dinosaurs.philosopher wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:29 pm In the near (or far) future, science will be needed for our future survival. When the sun dies, we'll need science to survive.
If you don't become inter-planetary, you (eventually) die oh this planet.
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
When speaking of "we" or "us", I refer to the human race. Not individuals.Logik wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:33 pmSure. We learned that from the dinosaurs.philosopher wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:29 pm In the near (or far) future, science will be needed for our future survival. When the sun dies, we'll need science to survive.
If you don't become inter-planetary, you (eventually) die oh this planet.
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
The human race is made up of individuals.philosopher wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:44 pm When speaking of "we" or "us", I refer to the human race. Not individuals.
-
- Posts: 5182
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Absolutely no one will persuade Eodnhoj7 that his claims are false, not because of obstinacy or lunacy on his part, but because Hnoj is making assertions based on intuition, a form of logic, according to him.
But intuitive logic is an oxymoron, as intuition consists of making swift conclusions without a dependence on logic. As such, while there have been numerous sound arguments that demonstrate the ludicrousness of Nhoj’s statements, these arguments are falling on deaf ears.
But intuitive logic is an oxymoron, as intuition consists of making swift conclusions without a dependence on logic. As such, while there have been numerous sound arguments that demonstrate the ludicrousness of Nhoj’s statements, these arguments are falling on deaf ears.
- Speakpigeon
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm
- Location: Paris, France, EU
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
I don't care what you say because words are made up of letters.
EB
EB
- Speakpigeon
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm
- Location: Paris, France, EU
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:29 pm But intuitive logic is an oxymoron, as intuition consists of making swift conclusions without a dependence on logic.
An enthymeme is a cryptic syllogism that is nonetheless easily understood by nearly all of us without even that we need to think to understand the meaning. This shows even uneducated people understand syllogisms intuitively. Intuition = logic.enthymeme
n. Logic A syllogism in which one of the premises or the conclusion is not stated explicitly.
What's incompatible between a "swift" process and a logical conclusion?
How could you possibly know that logic is not involved in all our intuitive decisions?
EB
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Actually it is just assumed.
Then progressively defined into input and output which progress to further definition infinitely.
With input and output being defined circulary both by what they are not (input is not output and output is not input) and generally because any definition results in a simple "because" that goes back to just assumption.
You just assume computation but use the munchauseen trillema without intention. Any "creativity" you claim is an individual "you" process is just a process of regressive spiraling you did not create.
-
- Posts: 5182
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
Intuition is the opposite of logic. See M&W.
Intuition is swift. Intuition is the opposite of logic.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 pm What's incompatible between a "swift" process and a logical conclusion?
Logic is the opposite of intuition. See M&W.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 pm How could you possibly know that logic is not involved in all our intuitive decisions?
Re: The Contradiction of the Three Laws of Logic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logiccommonsense wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:29 pmIntuition is the opposite of logic. See M&W.Intuition is swift. Intuition is the opposite of logic.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 pm What's incompatible between a "swift" process and a logical conclusion?Logic is the opposite of intuition. See M&W.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 pm How could you possibly know that logic is not involved in all our intuitive decisions?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_proof