Trajk Logik wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:04 pm
But then, who's the solipsist? You, me, or someone else? I would argue, that if solipsism is the case, then I must be the solipsist, and you only exist when I read your posts, which means there is no consciousness for you, only me. You only exist as words on a screen, not even as a human being that is experienced from time to time. So I don't understand why you would claim that you have consciousness, too. If you do, then solipsism can't be the case. There would be more than one consciousness, and what is it that separates our consciousness if not the shared world we live in?
Sorry for long post...this can take so long to explain using words...but can be instantly recognised in a heartbeat during a quiet meditation. You can take the long or short route what ever works for you.
So in response to your reply..
How can consciousness separate itself?...Consciousness is in fact like the emptiness of space in which all objects are seen. It is evident that objects appear to be separated from each other...but only because there is a space seemingly between them...and without this shapeless empty space, an object would have no distinction shape or form. So here, it is the shapeless aka consciousness that gives shape to itself via the object...it's not the object giving shape to the shapeless consciousness...an object can't do anything, it's already being done by consciousness. This is nonduality, this is it. This is reality...now, the mind can either reject this or take it...there is no one to whom it applies anyway...there is no thing or person running the universe with overall authority on what is right or wrong..there is only perception perceiving itself coming up with as many different translations of itself as there are grains of sand...but it's all sourced from the same one energy appearing different that's all.
So what makes the distinction between this and that, here and there?....the answer is the mind itself which is everywhere at once just like space is everywhere at once...and we all have a mind don't we?....that's because we as this mind aka consciousness or what ever you want to call it are everywhere....the label aka person doesn't have the mind, the mind has the person....
Mind has no owner, just as space has no source other than itself...mind is as free as space itself... it is an ''only child'' so to speak...it is the empty space of ''pure awareness being'' aka consciousness? When mind takes ownership of being, that's when separation occurs albeit illusory .
It's the thought that separates that which is inseparable .. perceiver and perceived are inseparable one...is a perceived object separate from what is perceiving it?..of course not...the illusory division is appearing within it's same self as a thought ..thought is a movement within itself which never moves...just as space doesn't move....and every object in space cannot exist without that space..every object is born of that space, it is the space appearing in a more gross form in contrast to the more subtle formless space.
Notice I am using different concepts to describe consciousness which is not a thing, because words are the only tool available that can point to what it is we are talking about..words point us back to original source which is wordless.
Do you understand?
Solipist is a label arising in you....YOU aka Consciousness is who you are, you are not the label which is just a thought...You consciousness are the source of every thought but not the thought. You is the Who. You is the PERCEIVER not the perceived...you only pretend to be the perceived by identification by association...for example...I am a person. No thing is making this happen.
Every thought is perceived by a perceiver ...the perceiver is what you are first and foremost, without the perceiver ..there is no perception of any thing.
The perceiver is not a thing and cannot be or experience itself as a thing. The perceiver is the constant unchanging unmoving universal substratum aka ground of all being in which phenomena arises inseparable from it.Every single person has this perceiving centre which is the polaris constant presence that is unborn and undying. That's who you are essentially.
But then the mind will say I am a person, or I am a solipist...the mind takes on the identity of the thought and becomes that because it has to be something else it's nothing at all... the mind is the perceiver only... and not what it is perceiving..if it was what it was perceiving, it would be able to experience itself as that perceived object..for example it would know what it is like to be a tree, or a table, or a cloud...but these things are images appearing in you, and these images are translated into things via thoughts about these images. When the minds awakens to it's real self which is the perceiver of these thoughts and images and notices that these thoughts and images come and go in it...it sees that it cannot be that which comes and goes..it is always and ever the unchanging constant perceiver of these.
If you are interested in knowing more about what's being discussed here, then you must study Nonduality..you must have a genuine whole hearted interest in it, and pursue it with every fibre of your being...if you cannot commit to it, then nothing I say will make you understand what is being talked about, it will never make sense to you. Only you can discover the real you, no one else can give it to you, or make you understand.
All I can do is keep describing this the only way I can using concepts ..and it is up to the reader to resonate or not..reject or take what is being discussed.