Order and chaos

Known unknowns and unknown unknowns!

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TSBU
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Order and chaos

Post by TSBU » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:24 am

mysterio448 wrote:
TSBU wrote:Why do life need an explanation and rocks doesn't?
Because life is much more orderly than rocks. Order tends to demand more explanation than disorder.
When you guys talk about order, you are showing a lot of ignorance, you don't even know what order is, you don't even know how to measure order, and yet, you start talking about things like life like "oh, mistery".

Life isn't more complex than a star. We ARE "rocks" (We, the living creatures, from amoebas to humans, are formed, like everything, by "little balls", well, the movement of ths balls, is what it is, it's guided by "mathematical" rules (you can call that order. And this rules are the same, for every thing in the Universe (everything is ordered, or everything is chaos, but you can't choose both of them, if there is chaos, if there is something that doesn't folow rules, and it interacts with things that follow rules, then those things can't be predicted either, so that rules are not rules).

Life is just a word to express some process, this process is in our heads cause evidently we don't deal in our heads with that tiny balls, it's an abstraction (that is, a simplification). But life, like everything, are that tiny balls. We can do simplifications, we talk about order and not chaos in a sense of knowledge, when we can predict something. Ironically, the more you can make a complex thought, the more simple is the structure you are talking about, you know it better. If there were enough balls crushing each others and you couldn't see any simplification or predict anything, then you wouldn't be able to talk about a new concept or abstraction, it would remain in "chaos" (in your mind), it's "so complex that I can't see any structure, and so, I will give a name to that soup, for example, sun, and my simple concept is going to be... a bunch of balls crushing each other".

We are that tiny balls, more balls= more difficult to predict=more complex.

There is no more mstery in humans than it is in rocks. Or gravity. Why do that tiny balls follow that rules? because they do it. Sooner or later there is a "why" without a because.

Impenitent
Posts: 1952
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by Impenitent » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:36 pm

Well I'm ever upper class high society...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQSk0CYPvwE

-Imp

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TSBU
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by TSBU » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Impenitent wrote:Well I'm ever upper class high society...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQSk0CYPvwE

-Imp
You don't have to sign your posts, we can see who you are if you don't do it too.

You remind me something I thought it was a joke at first time: Scrotox. Look for it XD it's so depresive and funny...

Impenitent
Posts: 1952
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by Impenitent » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:33 pm

TSBU wrote:
Impenitent wrote:Well I'm ever upper class high society...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQSk0CYPvwE

-Imp
You don't have to sign your posts, we can see who you are if you don't do it too.

You remind me something I thought it was a joke at first time: Scrotox. Look for it XD it's so depresive and funny...
a habit I picked up from Weary Locomotive at KillDevilHill a few years back...

-Imp

osgart
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by osgart » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:16 am

order is an intelligent process serving function. The universe is constantly trying to create life and failing miserably. It never gets to page 1 and we lucked out profusely. Given enough chances order will arise from chaos for chaos cant maintain itself. Yet with space and time being like it is these forces go against order. Yet eventually order arises more frequently . This time one in one quintillion. Next time life happens one in a trillion will be the odds. As things fall apart new things arise in its place. Space will collapse in on itself til a new stability arises. One day order will be the norm instead of chaos.
Chaos is constant change. Every physical force seeks a state of rest and until that rest is achieved chaos will ever seek out order.

Walker
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by Walker » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:36 am

osgart wrote:order is an intelligent process serving function. The universe is constantly trying to create life and failing miserably. It never gets to page 1 and we lucked out profusely. Given enough chances order will arise from chaos for chaos cant maintain itself. Yet with space and time being like it is these forces go against order. Yet eventually order arises more frequently . This time one in one quintillion. Next time life happens one in a trillion will be the odds. As things fall apart new things arise in its place. Space will collapse in on itself til a new stability arises. One day order will be the norm instead of chaos.
Chaos is constant change. Every physical force seeks a state of rest and until that rest is achieved chaos will ever seek out order.
Coincidentally, I was recently ruminating on the implications of the burned-bridge metaphor, aka natural law of irreversible process.
"The concept of entropy provides deep insight into the direction of spontaneous change for many everyday phenomena."
https://www.britannica.com/science/entropy-physics

Deep insight #1.
- as a state of disorder, a cooked duck has more entropy than a lame duck.

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TSBU
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by TSBU » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:49 am

osgart wrote:order is an intelligent process serving function. The universe is constantly trying to create life and failing miserably. It never gets to page 1 and we lucked out profusely. Given enough chances order will arise from chaos for chaos cant maintain itself. Yet with space and time being like it is these forces go against order. Yet eventually order arises more frequently . This time one in one quintillion. Next time life happens one in a trillion will be the odds. As things fall apart new things arise in its place. Space will collapse in on itself til a new stability arises. One day order will be the norm instead of chaos.
Chaos is constant change. Every physical force seeks a state of rest and until that rest is achieved chaos will ever seek out order.
HHmmm. No. Garbage post :D

Order is not an untelligent process serving function.
The universe is not trying to create life, or failing, or being iserable.
Given enough time (chances) chaos will grow, that's the second therodinamic principle.
Space and time are not forces.
Probability is a huamn concept dealing with statistics, not with reality, so yo can't talk about "one in a quintillion".

You speak to hear yourself and think that you are saying intelligent things, but you only say nosense :)

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TSBU
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by TSBU » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:51 am

Walker wrote:
osgart wrote:order is an intelligent process serving function. The universe is constantly trying to create life and failing miserably. It never gets to page 1 and we lucked out profusely. Given enough chances order will arise from chaos for chaos cant maintain itself. Yet with space and time being like it is these forces go against order. Yet eventually order arises more frequently . This time one in one quintillion. Next time life happens one in a trillion will be the odds. As things fall apart new things arise in its place. Space will collapse in on itself til a new stability arises. One day order will be the norm instead of chaos.
Chaos is constant change. Every physical force seeks a state of rest and until that rest is achieved chaos will ever seek out order.
Coincidentally, I was recently ruminating on the implications of the burned-bridge metaphor, aka natural law of irreversible process.
"The concept of entropy provides deep insight into the direction of spontaneous change for many everyday phenomena."
https://www.britannica.com/science/entropy-physics

Deep insight #1.
- as a state of disorder, a cooked duck has more entropy than a lame duck.
Every tiime you talk about enthropy, is not different from times qhen you talk about quantum mechanics. You just don't understand, but you talk about it, that give you the same feeling that people talking about god have.

HexHammer
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by HexHammer » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:06 pm

TSBU wrote:
mysterio448 wrote:
TSBU wrote:Why do life need an explanation and rocks doesn't?
Because life is much more orderly than rocks. Order tends to demand more explanation than disorder.
When you guys talk about order, you are showing a lot of ignorance, you don't even know what order is, you don't even know how to measure order, and yet, you start talking about things like life like "oh, mistery".
Your entire thread is pure nonsense and babble!

We have police and judges to take care of public order, in those countries without police and judges, there are is little to no order. Else Physics describes reality through mathematical principles quite well.

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TSBU
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Re: Order and chaos

Post by TSBU » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:35 pm

HexHammer wrote:
TSBU wrote:
mysterio448 wrote:
Because life is much more orderly than rocks. Order tends to demand more explanation than disorder.
When you guys talk about order, you are showing a lot of ignorance, you don't even know what order is, you don't even know how to measure order, and yet, you start talking about things like life like "oh, mistery".
Your entire thread is pure nonsense and babble!

We have police and judges to take care of public order, in those countries without police and judges, there are is little to no order. Else Physics describes reality through mathematical principles quite well.
Who the hell is talking about politics? You, of course. And you imagine that you live in an "ordered" world between humans. Sure. Back to work man, feel proud of it and keep working.

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