4 kinds of things

Known unknowns and unknown unknowns!

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Jaded Sage
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4 kinds of things

Post by Jaded Sage » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:41 pm

There is stuff we know we know. Like the price of a dollar cheeseburger.

There is stuff we know we don't know. Like who will win the next presidental election.

There is stuff we don't know we don't know. By definition I cannot give an example.

There is stuff we don't know we know. This, if it exists, is the most fascinating of the four. I imagine it is something like intuition. What do you think?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:48 pm

Jaded Sage wrote:There is stuff we know we know. Like the price of a dollar cheeseburger.

There is stuff we know we don't know. Like who will win the next presidental election.

There is stuff we don't know we don't know. By definition I cannot give an example.

There is stuff we don't know we know. This, if it exists, is the most fascinating of the four. I imagine it is something like intuition. What do you think?
What do I think?

I think if you want to rip off Slavoj Zizek then have the decency to quote him.

1) known knows
2) known unknowns
3) unknown unknowns
4) unknown knowns

And 4 is the most interesting. These represent cultural and tacit knowledge and endemic assumptions, unconscious beliefs; things taken for granted than we are not immediately conscious that we are applying them to what we think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SQpczc8mGg

http://www.lacan.com/zizekrumsfeld.htm

Jaded Sage
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Jaded Sage » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:21 pm

I came up with that a few years ago. I must be smart. Admittedly, he is more concise than I am.

So what do you think of unknown knowns, or stuff that we know but don't know we know (I think that matches up).

HexHammer
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by HexHammer » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:54 pm

Jaded Sage wrote:There is stuff we know we know. Like the price of a dollar cheeseburger.

There is stuff we know we don't know. Like who will win the next presidental election.

There is stuff we don't know we don't know. By definition I cannot give an example.

There is stuff we don't know we know. This, if it exists, is the most fascinating of the four. I imagine it is something like intuition. What do you think?
Now I've seen some of your post, don't think you have a job giving very much.

Jaded Sage
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Jaded Sage » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:03 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:There is stuff we know we know. Like the price of a dollar cheeseburger.

There is stuff we know we don't know. Like who will win the next presidental election.

There is stuff we don't know we don't know. By definition I cannot give an example.

There is stuff we don't know we know. This, if it exists, is the most fascinating of the four. I imagine it is something like intuition. What do you think?
Now I've seen some of your post, don't think you have a job giving very much.
I don't understand what you're asking. You're saying you want me to type some more?

HexHammer
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by HexHammer » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:25 pm

Jaded Sage wrote:I don't understand what you're asking. You're saying you want me to type some more?
You have a very poor preception.
Typically there's not very bright people in low wage job. What what good is more of the same garbage?

Skip
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Skip » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:42 pm

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool, shun him;
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child, teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep, wake him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is wise, follow him. - Confucius (attributed)

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. - Donald Rumsfeld

Both are more elegantly phrased.
And, for the things you know but don't know that you know, there is always hypnosis or past life regression.
Just saying.

HexHammer
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by HexHammer » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:24 pm

Skip wrote:He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool, shun him;
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child, teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep, wake him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is wise, follow him. - Confucius (attributed)

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. - Donald Rumsfeld

Both are more elegantly phrased.
And, for the things you know but don't know that you know, there is always hypnosis or past life regression.
Just saying.
..yearh ..not too bright.

In the Dark Ages the church just KNEW that the Earth was the center of the universe, and burned all those damned heretics that said otherwise.

All the doctors just KNEW that blood letting was good for you, along with a good jug of quicksilver.

..besides they just KNEW that thsoe viciouvs temptresses was witches with witch marks and burned them at the stake!

This link viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16218 shows that tbieter just knows that Yves Simon is a brillian philospher, and has written brilliant books about free will. He and all the other retards believe in this blatant nonsense!!!!!

Being aware of own ignorance is irrelevant if the wise delude himself with wrong knowledge, like all of you tards!

Dalek Prime
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:00 am

I always tell people, when they think they've figured me out, of the gulf between thinking they know, and knowing (they know). Therein lies a distinction between the philosopher, and the non-philosopher.

Skip
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Skip » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:39 am

If you're born knowing nothing and go through life knowing nothing and die knowing nothing, you may be a philosopher and wonderfully humble, but I doubt you get much done.


(Um... Dalek Prime? Are there really that many people determined to figure you out? )

Dalek Prime
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:51 am

Skip wrote:If you're born knowing nothing and go through life knowing nothing and die knowing nothing, you may be a philosopher and wonderfully humble, but I doubt you get much done.


(Um... Dalek Prime? Are there really that many people determined to figure you out? )
Not just about me, really. I merely used it as an example. But yeah, there are a lot of people out there with too much time on their hands, and not enough curiosity to dwell on anything deeper than people aka busybodies. I'm sure you've met some, Skip.

Skip
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Skip » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:38 pm

I'm just glad I'm not interesting enough for anyone to analyze.

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Harbal
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Harbal » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:53 pm

What about the stuff we think we know but don't know? It's almost like the stuff we don't know we don't know except it's a lot more likely to cause us trouble when it changes into stuff that we know we didn't know but thought we did know.

dionisos
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by dionisos » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:34 pm

Harbal wrote:What about the stuff we think we know but don't know? It's almost like the stuff we don't know we don't know except it's a lot more likely to cause us trouble when it changes into stuff that we know we didn't know but thought we did know.
I think it would be a sub-category of stuff we don’t know we don’t know, you could have many reasons to not knowing you don’t know, don’t thinking at all about the thing is one, and thinking you know the thing when you don’t is another.

Dalek Prime
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Re: 4 kinds of things

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:34 am

I once told a cousin I had the family bible, with my ancestor's margin notes, which I was going to transcribe for her. I was certain of this. So I opened the one I had, thinking it was the 18th century one. Well, it was a 19th century bible, with no notes. Yet I would have sworn I had the earlier one. Even personal memory can be deceiving, I recognized.

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