is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

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jackles
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is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by jackles » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:34 am

yeah could it be the mind /consciousness duality of the observer that collapses the wave function.as in consciousness presents the event and does not investigate its self or its presented event.the mind then seperate from the pure consciousness investigates its creators creation causing the collaps to be seen in the light duality ex.in other words the event is a localised presentation of a nonlocal element (consciousness).the mind being local collapses the wave function .so the local field of events is wavelike in nature.this would mean the mind in normal mode is fuzzy but when it investigates becomes an object collapsing its own fuzziness.conclusion.the minds normal stat is fuzzy.

lancek4
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by lancek4 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:12 am

I like the first idea: that consciousness does not see its operation in having an object. And I think there is a duality indicated by this situation, but I'm not so sure about the rest of it.

jackles
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by jackles » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:20 am

yeah put another way the double slit ex could be seen as a fact or fiction ex.consciousness being fact the mind being fiction.so the underlying fact of reality is consciousness and fact cant investigate its self in an analiticall way as in hiesenberges uncertainty principle.the fictional mind wants to find a fact it cant get to and so this produces a fictional effect in the collaps of the wave funtion.hiesenburges principle is there for the principle of consciousness not investigating its self as a law in the (virtual) local fiction event.consciousness being nonlocal and there for unreachable to a local mind.local gets a local result.nonlocal (or absolute fact) would never investigate its factual self in an ex.god doesnt do ex to find out how he works cos he already knows. hes beond knowledge an is absolute fact.i dont think god plays dice .well only while as a human consciousness any way.

lancek4
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by lancek4 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:38 pm

Sounds quite non philosophical. So, what does it mean that consciousness behaves in this way?

jackles
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by jackles » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:51 pm

thats just it consciousness its self does not behave in any way at all because its no thing.its the enquiring mind thats uncertain and sets up the apparatus to find out a fact.but this is the level of ex where fact and fiction meet head on with each other.heisenbergs principle is in effect neverhappeness as a part of happening.

Gee
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by Gee » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:55 pm

jackles wrote:yeah could it be the mind /consciousness duality of the observer that collapses the wave function.as in consciousness presents the event and does not investigate its self or its presented event.the mind then seperate from the pure consciousness investigates its creators creation causing the collaps to be seen in the light duality ex.in other words the event is a localised presentation of a nonlocal element (consciousness).the mind being local collapses the wave function .so the local field of events is wavelike in nature.this would mean the mind in normal mode is fuzzy but when it investigates becomes an object collapsing its own fuzziness.conclusion.the minds normal stat is fuzzy.
Jackles;

You do have some interesting ideas. There is a duality to our consciousness and it does relate to locality and non-locality. I was also wondering if this had relevance to the "wave" issue.

The rational aspect of mind, the one that we think with, is local and relates to our five senses and physical reality. But the unconscious aspect of mind has a logic that does not understand cause and effect or time and space, so it does not appear to relate to physical reality and does appear to be non-local.

As to which one is fuzzy, I have no damned idea. Maybe more coffee will help.

G

Blaggard
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by Blaggard » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:12 pm

He certainly does have a lot of interesting ideas which is what it's all about. I just wish he'd phrase them a little better, get of his ass and learn the subject better, But meh, interesting is like a box of chocolates. Not that I am comparing jackles to Forest Gump, by the way. But he does seem to express himself like a Gump, be nice if he ever read any of the links I have so painstakingly given him, so that he wouldn't talk about fuzzy like it means anything at all, non locality so it is like the non locality he opines on, and so on, but such is life. :)

Physics... it's not rocket science, oh no wait it is. :P

There's nothing fuzzy about quantum mechanics, it's like saying all science is just a fuzzy mess. Quantum mechanics is precise and absolute, but not in the same way as classical mechanics.

lancek4
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by lancek4 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:53 am

Yeah Jackels. What's up with the choppy lingo . Its,like youre texting on a 12-key pad flip phone. Lol
But if you are, hey, no judgement. We got what we got.
But anyways.

This is an interesting idea. I just went on Wiki for a primer on Wave collapse. :D
I think a got a rough idea.


I like the probable and deterministic arenas.

I am not sure though, if J you are attempting to indicate some 'spiritual zen oneness'. Cuz, I have noticed that sometimes people will use math physics to support a sort of real-true zen-One-universal-energy type idea. What you got to say bout that?
Last edited by lancek4 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

lancek4
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by lancek4 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:58 am

Gee wrote:
jackles wrote:yeah could it be the mind /consciousness duality of the observer that collapses the wave function.as in consciousness presents the event and does not investigate its self or its presented event.the mind then seperate from the pure consciousness investigates its creators creation causing the collaps to be seen in the light duality ex.in other words the event is a localised presentation of a nonlocal element (consciousness).the mind being local collapses the wave function .so the local field of events is wavelike in nature.this would mean the mind in normal mode is fuzzy but when it investigates becomes an object collapsing its own fuzziness.conclusion.the minds normal stat is fuzzy.
Jackles;

You do have some interesting ideas. There is a duality to our consciousness and it does relate to locality and non-locality. I was also wondering if this had relevance to the "wave" issue.

The rational aspect of mind, the one that we think with, is local and relates to our five senses and physical reality. But the unconscious aspect of mind has a logic that does not understand cause and effect or time and space, so it does not appear to relate to physical reality and does appear to be non-local.

As to which one is fuzzy, I have no damned idea. Maybe more coffee will help.

G
I'm not,physicist or mathematician, so maybe someone could give me a quickie summary of the wave collapse.

But from what I seem to gather:
I would read this and say that the problem is reducing the formula to 'rational' and 'unconscious'. That the formula indicates an even further reduction, one that 'overrides' such concepts. Basically, I would say, to reduce to such concepts relies upon the 'wave' of thought, such that it has not collapsed. That viewed from the 'wave', the probable, such unconscious would seem to resonate with the formula, but from the deterministic, that the unconscious is merely another reification of the probable. That such probable limits reduce to the 'end' that is the sub or unconsciousness. But that beyond such concepts, the human being resides in a determination that is different than what discursive limitations have ability, from the probable, to estimate. Hence, the formula determine a discourse separate from the discourse based in the probable outcomes.

jackles
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Re: is it dual nature of the observer that collapes the wave

Post by jackles » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:32 am

yes i think i see what you mean about subconsciousness being fuzzy.heisenbergs uncertainty principle is aboslute fact in fiction.in other words it the principle needs to be in side a fictional event to make it a fact as facts are normaly understood.a fictional mind can then never reach absolute fact its self without seeing it in fictional terms.absolute fact is nonlocal to the event so heisenbergs principle is nonlocality in event terms.zen or the teachings of jesus are nonlocal to the event in the same way but comming from the opposite direction.zen collapses the event some what so that nonlocality can be experienced in the event.so heisenbergs uncertainty princ is nonlocality as seen in local terms as a law regarding consciousness and the local event.

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