personal truth

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Lacewing
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Re: personal truth

Post by Lacewing »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:04 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:38 pm People share belief in all kinds of "truths", which may or may not be true at all.
That anyone could write that with a straight face is either insanity or an intentional abuse of language.
That you could misunderstand it is surprising. :)
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bahman
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Re: personal truth

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
No, there is one truth. How could be different truths? That makes the reality incoherent.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:47 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
No, there is one truth. How could be different truths? That makes the reality incoherent.
well, yeaaah. but truth isn't one truth because reality would be incoherent otherwise. the truth is the truth whether its perceived, or not perceived, or perceived incorrectly, or correctly. the truth is still the truth.
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bahman
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Re: personal truth

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:38 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:47 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm its seems to be fashionable now to redefine personal knowledge as personal truth. turning what i know or have experienced isn't what you know or have experience in to "truth is relative". and converting that into if it isn't known, then its not true.
No, there is one truth. How could be different truths? That makes the reality incoherent.
well, yeaaah. but truth isn't one truth because reality would be incoherent otherwise. the truth is the truth whether its perceived, or not perceived, or perceived incorrectly, or correctly. the truth is still the truth.
The truth explains reality as it is. There is one, whether it is perceived or not.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:38 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:47 pm
No, there is one truth. How could be different truths? That makes the reality incoherent.
well, yeaaah. but truth isn't one truth because reality would be incoherent otherwise. the truth is the truth whether its perceived, or not perceived, or perceived incorrectly, or correctly. the truth is still the truth.
The truth explains reality as it is. There is one, whether it is perceived or not.
that would be correct
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

DPMartin wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:51 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:38 pm

well, yeaaah. but truth isn't one truth because reality would be incoherent otherwise. the truth is the truth whether its perceived, or not perceived, or perceived incorrectly, or correctly. the truth is still the truth.
The truth explains reality as it is. There is one, whether it is perceived or not.
that would be correct
I am afraid humanity is not that self-assured that there is a physical reality even when not observed. As Einstein said though, he believes the moon is there whether he is looking at it or not. Individually we can claim certainty, but in reality, certainty does not carry the day.

Personal truth is a personal experience in the here and now, even where it disagrees with physical reality it is still true to the biology that has the experience. This is why collective agreement of a biological experience carries more weight than an individual experience.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:21 am
DPMartin wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:51 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 pm
The truth explains reality as it is. There is one, whether it is perceived or not.
that would be correct
I am afraid humanity is not that self-assured that there is a physical reality even when not observed. As Einstein said though, he believes the moon is there whether he is looking at it or not. Individually we can claim certainty, but in reality, certainty does not carry the day.

Personal truth is a personal experience in the here and now, even where it disagrees with physical reality it is still true to the biology that has the experience. This is why collective agreement of a biological experience carries more weight than an individual experience.
well don’t be afraid, its ok. Also, LSD is experienced. Thought is either guided misguided or not guided and can only think what is there to think as in what the thinker is aware of or made aware of to think. (there's more to it then that)

Thing is, what you posted about Einstein you said he “believed”, or perceived it to be true.
Man’s perceptions have nothing to do with reality. Only that man can expect he can perceive reality and think correctly about it. And what is the correct thing to think? That is the real question in many cases.
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bahman
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Re: personal truth

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:17 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:21 am
DPMartin wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:51 pm

that would be correct
I am afraid humanity is not that self-assured that there is a physical reality even when not observed. As Einstein said though, he believes the moon is there whether he is looking at it or not. Individually we can claim certainty, but in reality, certainty does not carry the day.

Personal truth is a personal experience in the here and now, even where it disagrees with physical reality it is still true to the biology that has the experience. This is why collective agreement of a biological experience carries more weight than an individual experience.
well don’t be afraid, its ok. Also, LSD is experienced. Thought is either guided misguided or not guided and can only think what is there to think as in what the thinker is aware of or made aware of to think. (there's more to it then that)

Thing is, what you posted about Einstein you said he “believed”, or perceived it to be true.
Man’s perceptions have nothing to do with reality. Only that man can expect he can perceive reality and think correctly about it. And what is the correct thing to think? That is the real question in many cases.
I like this. :mrgreen:
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm
DPMartin wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:17 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:21 am

I am afraid humanity is not that self-assured that there is a physical reality even when not observed. As Einstein said though, he believes the moon is there whether he is looking at it or not. Individually we can claim certainty, but in reality, certainty does not carry the day.

Personal truth is a personal experience in the here and now, even where it disagrees with physical reality it is still true to the biology that has the experience. This is why collective agreement of a biological experience carries more weight than an individual experience.
well don’t be afraid, its ok. Also, LSD is experienced. Thought is either guided misguided or not guided and can only think what is there to think as in what the thinker is aware of or made aware of to think. (there's more to it then that)

Thing is, what you posted about Einstein you said he “believed”, or perceived it to be true.
Man’s perceptions have nothing to do with reality. Only that man can expect he can perceive reality and think correctly about it. And what is the correct thing to think? That is the real question in many cases.
I like this. :mrgreen:
DPMartin,

As far as apparent reality is concerned, one only needs to alter one's biology in order to experience an altered apparent reality. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:29 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm
DPMartin wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:17 pm

well don’t be afraid, its ok. Also, LSD is experienced. Thought is either guided misguided or not guided and can only think what is there to think as in what the thinker is aware of or made aware of to think. (there's more to it then that)

Thing is, what you posted about Einstein you said he “believed”, or perceived it to be true.
Man’s perceptions have nothing to do with reality. Only that man can expect he can perceive reality and think correctly about it. And what is the correct thing to think? That is the real question in many cases.
I like this. :mrgreen:
DPMartin,

As far as apparent reality is concerned, one only needs to alter one's biology in order to experience an altered apparent reality. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things.
Sorry you’re just not getting it, what you experience doesn’t have to be the truth does it? But the truth is still out there no matter what you experience, isn’t it? Granted experience is to know, but what you know isn’t necessarily the truth, lies and deceptions do exist and that is what one knows.
If you’re in the dark you will never recognize what the truth is, nor if something is true or not, only that it hurts or feels good.
promethean75
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Re: personal truth

Post by promethean75 »

"What I really need is to get clear about what I must do, not what I must know, except insofar as knowledge must precede every act. What matters is to find a purpose... the crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die." - S. Kick-or-guard
Walker
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Re: personal truth

Post by Walker »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:17 pm "What I really need is to get clear about what I must do, not what I must know, except insofar as knowledge must precede every act. What matters is to find a purpose... the crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die." - S. Kick-or-guard
Hemingway's daily purpose was to find a single sentence, and build on that. Less dramatic than live or die, but he did okay.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

DPMartin wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:44 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:29 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm
I like this. :mrgreen:
DPMartin,

As far as apparent reality is concerned, one only needs to alter one's biology in order to experience an altered apparent reality. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things.
Sorry you’re just not getting it, what you experience doesn’t have to be the truth does it? But the truth is still out there no matter what you experience, isn’t it? Granted experience is to know, but what you know isn’t necessarily the truth, lies and deceptions do exist and that is what one knows.
If you’re in the dark you will never recognize what the truth is, nor if something is true or not, only that it hurts or feels good.
I think we have a mutual misunderstanding here, you do realize that an organism can only know the world subjectively yes! This granted, the quality of the world of objects depends upon the qualities and makeup of one's biology. If something is experienced to be hard/dense it is because of your own body's given density. There is no absolute truth, truth is what you experience and though not infallible, it is true to the biology that had the experience. The physical world as experienced subjectively is dependent upon life upon biological consciousness. It is doubtful that the world of objects is there in any objective sense. Truth is a silly term when not considered in relation to biological experience, if it is true or false it is true or false to a given biology, again not infallible but it will be true to the state of the biology that is doing the experiencing. People often sight the color blind as being mistaken or not perceiving correctly, this is due to the majority setting the standard but the color blind simply experience that color frequency differently than the majority standard. This is sometimes not even apparent to those concerned for the person termed color blind has learned to call what they see as the standard known color. Illusions and delusions do create error, as to the individual truth is experience. but truth to the group is agreement but its all biology. The senses sometimes lie or one's knowledge is not up to the subject at hand and judgement might not agree with physical reality but until another experience teaches the subject of an error it will remain the truth for that subject at that moment. Truth is what biology says it is, for biology is the measure and meaning of all things, again not infallible, but when there is an error, it will be biologically discerned.
DPMartin
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Re: personal truth

Post by DPMartin »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:31 am
DPMartin wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:44 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:29 am

DPMartin,

As far as apparent reality is concerned, one only needs to alter one's biology in order to experience an altered apparent reality. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things.
Sorry you’re just not getting it, what you experience doesn’t have to be the truth does it? But the truth is still out there no matter what you experience, isn’t it? Granted experience is to know, but what you know isn’t necessarily the truth, lies and deceptions do exist and that is what one knows.
If you’re in the dark you will never recognize what the truth is, nor if something is true or not, only that it hurts or feels good.
I think we have a mutual misunderstanding here, you do realize that an organism can only know the world subjectively yes! This granted, the quality of the world of objects depends upon the qualities and makeup of one's biology. If something is experienced to be hard/dense it is because of your own body's given density. There is no absolute truth, truth is what you experience and though not infallible, it is true to the biology that had the experience. The physical world as experienced subjectively is dependent upon life upon biological consciousness. It is doubtful that the world of objects is there in any objective sense. Truth is a silly term when not considered in relation to biological experience, if it is true or false it is true or false to a given biology, again not infallible but it will be true to the state of the biology that is doing the experiencing. People often sight the color blind as being mistaken or not perceiving correctly, this is due to the majority setting the standard but the color blind simply experience that color frequency differently than the majority standard. This is sometimes not even apparent to those concerned for the person termed color blind has learned to call what they see as the standard known color. Illusions and delusions do create error, as to the individual truth is experience. but truth to the group is agreement but its all biology. The senses sometimes lie or one's knowledge is not up to the subject at hand and judgement might not agree with physical reality but until another experience teaches the subject of an error it will remain the truth for that subject at that moment. Truth is what biology says it is, for biology is the measure and meaning of all things, again not infallible, but when there is an error, it will be biologically discerned.
I could be mistaken but this argument of your sounds like an attempt to justify extreme narcissism. All revolves around what the being knows and perceives, even truth or what it true. Na, na na na, sorry, not buying and it certainly doesn’t make any kind of real sense.
popeye1945
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Re: personal truth

Post by popeye1945 »

DPMartin wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:28 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:31 am
DPMartin wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:44 pm

Sorry you’re just not getting it, what you experience doesn’t have to be the truth does it? But the truth is still out there no matter what you experience, isn’t it? Granted experience is to know, but what you know isn’t necessarily the truth, lies and deceptions do exist and that is what one knows.
If you’re in the dark you will never recognize what the truth is, nor if something is true or not, only that it hurts or feels good.
I think we have a mutual misunderstanding here, you do realize that an organism can only know the world subjectively yes! This granted, the quality of the world of objects depends upon the qualities and makeup of one's biology. If something is experienced to be hard/dense it is because of your own body's given density. There is no absolute truth, truth is what you experience and though not infallible, it is true to the biology that had the experience. The physical world as experienced subjectively is dependent upon life upon biological consciousness. It is doubtful that the world of objects is there in any objective sense. Truth is a silly term when not considered in relation to biological experience, if it is true or false it is true or false to a given biology, again not infallible but it will be true to the state of the biology that is doing the experiencing. People often sight the color blind as being mistaken or not perceiving correctly, this is due to the majority setting the standard but the color blind simply experience that color frequency differently than the majority standard. This is sometimes not even apparent to those concerned for the person termed color blind has learned to call what they see as the standard known color. Illusions and delusions do create error, as to the individual truth is experience. but truth to the group is agreement but its all biology. The senses sometimes lie or one's knowledge is not up to the subject at hand and judgement might not agree with physical reality but until another experience teaches the subject of an error it will remain the truth for that subject at that moment. Truth is what biology says it is, for biology is the measure and meaning of all things, again not infallible, but when there is an error, it will be biologically discerned.
I could be mistaken but this argument of your sounds like an attempt to justify extreme narcissism. All revolves around what the being knows and perceives, even truth or what it true. Na, na na na, sorry, not buying and it certainly doesn’t make any kind of real sense.
DPMartin
Just tell me if would, another source of meaning other than a conscious subject, I think you need ponder the problem a bit more before throwing terms around like narcissism. I here, and all ears!!!
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