IF the universe was created THEN...

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jayjacobus
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by jayjacobus »

Reality shows up as symbols in the mind. Images, sounds, smells, tastes and tacile feelings are not reality. They are representations of reality.

To speculate that reality is a simulation means that the representations in the mind come from an unknown source. Without proof of the unknown source, most people accept that what their senses represent are what actually exists. The people, who doubt this, bind themselves to a paranormal reality that may be fictitious.

What's the point? What do you do in the simulation that is different then what you do in physical reality?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

jayjacobus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:51 pm To speculate that reality is a simulation means that the representations in the mind come from an unknown source.
Not enough information. What do they "simulate"?

If there's no ultimate "reality," there's nothing for them to "simulate," and then the term "simulation" refers to nothing at all.

If Neo is in the Matrix, but there's no other, outside reality, then the Matrix IS reality. It's not just that he THINKS it is; it also is. For there's nothing with reference to which it could cogently be called "a fake," or "a semblance" or " a misrepresentation."
jayjacobus
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by jayjacobus »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:57 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:51 pm To speculate that reality is a simulation means that the representations in the mind come from an unknown source.
Not enough information. What do they "simulate"?

If there's no ultimate "reality," there's nothing for them to "simulate," and then the term "simulation" refers to nothing at all.

If Neo is in the Matrix, but there's no other, outside reality, then the Matrix IS reality. It's not just that he THINKS it is; it also is. For there's nothing with reference to which it could cogently be called "a fake," or "a semblance" or " a misrepresentation."
Yes and why does a simulation need to exist? We could all be involved in the primary reality. The advocates of a simulated reality have too many gaps to fill.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

jayjacobus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:02 pm Yes and why does a simulation need to exist? We could all be involved in the primary reality. The advocates of a simulated reality have too many gaps to fill.
Well, right. It's like William of Occam said: why multiply explanation beyond the necessary? That just makes the explanation less plausible, not more.

If we only have one reality, it makes no sense to call it a "simulation," because that necessarily implies two realities, at the minimum.
Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:51 pm Reality shows up as symbols in the mind. Images, sounds, smells, tastes and tacile feelings are not reality. They are representations of reality.

To speculate that reality is a simulation means that the representations in the mind come from an unknown source. Without proof of the unknown source, most people accept that what their senses represent are what actually exists. The people, who doubt this, bind themselves to a paranormal reality that may be fictitious.

What's the point? What do you do in the simulation that is different then what you do in physical reality?
'Mind' cannot look at itself.

Mind does not create the dream.

It is the film,the mechanism,through which the Light passes.

It is the transducer through which the undifferentiated creation is converted into the secondary conceptual dream world in which the resulting chimerical entity wanders.

Light and Shadow are two different aspects of the same exact substance. They simultaneously are one and the same no thing (Simulation)

Simul (in prescriptions) together.

Most people don't like the illusion, even though they are it, is it.
Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:57 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:51 pm To speculate that reality is a simulation means that the representations in the mind come from an unknown source.
Not enough information. What do they "simulate"?

If there's no ultimate "reality," there's nothing for them to "simulate," and then the term "simulation" refers to nothing at all.

If Neo is in the Matrix, but there's no other, outside reality, then the Matrix IS reality. It's not just that he THINKS it is; it also is. For there's nothing with reference to which it could cogently be called "a fake," or "a semblance" or " a misrepresentation."
Neo is not in the matrix, Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.

Image

Mind? If this means anything, what it means is not it.

There is no such 'thing' as mind... apart from the idea of 'mind'... which 'idea' is not what thought says it is. :?

It is 'that which is known as mind'... and 'what' is that?

No idea.


This imagined 'mind' creates nothing... no more than a subroutine in a computer program creates the images of a game character in a game world.

Imagine that.

As for 'imagination and knowing'... is there any 'thing' imagined that is not known?

This is a 'meaningful question', simply because the answer is known. And that which is KNOWN know nothing.
Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

There is no gap between the unconsciousness not-knowing ( sleep state) and the conscious knowing (awake state)

They are two sides of the same coin transforming from one state to the other, they're only difference is in appearance only, but are in essence two aspects of the same exact substance. Always here now, nowhere.
Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

There is no conscious entity aware of the exact moment it has fallen asleep, nor is there any conscious entity controlling the exact moment it wakes up.

In the same context, there is no conscious entity aware of the exact moment of birth, nor is there a conscious entity aware of the exact moment of death.

No thing lives, and no thing dies, except in this conception, the artificial dream of separation, the realm of knowledge. The 'ego' is nothing more than knowledge.

No thing known is NEVER seen.

Things are known by the only knowing there is, which is unknowable.
commonsense
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by commonsense »

No doesn’t none.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.
Then nothing is being "simulated."

QED
commonsense
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:54 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.
Then nothing is being "simulated."

QED
Unless the field of dreams is a simulation itself. As Don’tAskMe would have it, there is no gap between reality and simulation—they are opposite sides of the same coin.

If there is no gap, the two must exist on a continuum. If they exist as such, and therefore there is only one thing, then it must be reality since a simulation cannot exist without a reality to simulate.

As noted by IC, nothing is being simulated.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:19 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:54 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.
Then nothing is being "simulated."

QED
Unless the field of dreams is a simulation itself.
But even that would have to be a "simulation" of nothing, which means it's not "simulating" anything.
If there is no gap, the two must exist on a continuum. If they exist as such, and therefore there is only one thing, then it must be reality since a simulation cannot exist without a reality to simulate.
Well, maybe "it" can exist, and BE reality then, but it cannot "simulate," then.
As noted by IC, nothing is being simulated.
Yep, that's the point.
Dontaskme
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:54 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.
Then nothing is being "simulated."

QED
Conceptually speaking yes, nothing, not-a-thing is being simulated. There's just life happening all by it's lonesome, one without a second. The observer and observed are infinitely everything and nothing. So there is nothing to be simulated, and at the same time there is nothing that is not the simulation.

The word ''simulation'' is being used in the context of the conception of the word, that is already an idea couched within the simulation which is inconceivable even to itself.

All these 'conceptual ideas' are just impositions upon the ineffable unknowable, they are fictions.
Age
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pm The word 'you' is an idea about 'what', EXACTLY?
YOU
So, is the 'YOU' a REAL, ACTUAL thing?

Who and/or what is 'YOU', and WHY do 'you' capitalize the 'you' word?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pmThis may be 100% True and Correct, but this does NOT take away from the FACT that some labels point to, refers to, or are of actual things. For example, the word 'knower' refers to some ACTUAL 'thing', correct?
The word ''knower'' is an idea. An idea is known, and that which is known, know nothing.
You did not answer my question. You are just repeating the same thing, over and over. And, I am just wanting to understand more.

I understand, to you, the word 'knower' is an idea. To me, words can be ideas, but I am trying to understand whether, to you, a 'knower' is an actual REAL thing or not?

Also, is a 'human being' known?

And, can a 'human being' know some things?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:07 pm 'you' can REALLY twist and distort 'things'.
Conceptual 'ideas' do not distort, they simply are as they are known, and that which is known, know nothing.
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pmOF COURSE 'things' and 'objects' are conceptually known. This is HOW 'knowing' works. 'Knowing' is in the mental state, which is also known as, and literally by, 'concepts'.

So, 'things' and 'objects' are conceptually known, but this does NOT take away from the FACT that some of these 'things' and 'objects' are REAL and ACTUAL things.
The words 'Real' and 'Actual' are concepts known, and that which is known, know nothing.
I KNOW 'human beings', and, to me, human beings can know some things. So, this OBVIOUSLY REFUTES what 'you' CLAIM here, correct?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pmAlso, I have tried to clarify with you previously about if 'human beings' are known, and if so, then whether you think or believe that 'human beings' can either know things or not know things.

I await your clarity.
All known concepts do not know anything, and thankfully they don't have to know, for they are already the 'knowing' that cannot be known.
Why do you NOT just answer thee ACTUAL question asked?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:07 pmAnd, if the knower is only an idea, then who and/or what is the one who this idea exists within, and thus 'knows' of?
The 'who' and the 'what' and the 'one' ..and the 'within' and without' are all inclusive of concepts known, and that which is known, known nothing.
But the knower and Knower KNOWS these things, which are known, which OBVIOUSLY knows MANY things. So, again, 'you' are OBVIOUSLY Wrong and Incorrect here. Which you OBVIOUSLY could NOT refute.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Age wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pmNO, I am NOT asking that at all.

As ALL ideas exist within a mental construct, concepts or conceptual framework, or thoughts and thinking. This was ALREADY KNOWN.

Also, I suggest you CLARIFY before you even begin to ASSUME ANY thing. That way you will NOT be answering questions that were NEVER even asked.
'Mental contruct' is another idea.

What is an idea...I've no idea.
An 'idea' is a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action.

Now if you are unable to differentiate between a REAL, 'actual thing' from just an 'idea', then so be it. But, most people are able to.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:58 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:54 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am Neo is the matrix. There is nothing beyond the field of dreams.
Then nothing is being "simulated."

QED
not-a-thing is being simulated
Then there is no "simulation" either.
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