IF the universe was created THEN...

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VVilliam
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IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

IF the universe was created THEN...we must exist within some type of Simulated Reality.

What it is simulating is beyond our reach with the present devices of science.

Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am IF the universe was created THEN...we must exist within some type of Simulated Reality.
Non-sequitur.
The "then" does not logically follow from the "if" there.
Dubious
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

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VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am
Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?
We do live within a creation namely the one that created us and everything existing within it called the universe.
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:45 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am
Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?
We do live within a creation namely the one that created us and everything existing within it called the universe.
So you are saying that the universe was created?
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:34 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am IF the universe was created THEN...we must exist within some type of Simulated Reality.
Non-sequitur.
The "then" does not logically follow from the "if" there.
So you say. But what is it you are saying?
Dubious
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dubious »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:46 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:45 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am
Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?
We do live within a creation namely the one that created us and everything existing within it called the universe.
So you are saying that the universe was created?
Certainly creation took place which doesn't mean a god did it or had anything to do with it.
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:52 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:46 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:45 am

We do live within a creation namely the one that created us and everything existing within it called the universe.
So you are saying that the universe was created?
Certainly creation took place which doesn't mean a god did it or had anything to do with it.
Where in the OP is there any claim that 'a god did it'?

"Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?"

If it is a creation as you claim, then where is your evidence?
Dubious
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dubious »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:59 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:52 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:46 am

So you are saying that the universe was created?
Certainly creation took place which doesn't mean a god did it or had anything to do with it.
Where in the OP is there any claim that 'a god did it'?

"Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?"

If it is a creation as you claim, then where is your evidence?
Anything which didn't exist before had to be created whether the process is known or not. Is there a mystery here? Also, in the OP there is no a claim that god did it. Having admitted that, creation, for many, has a religious connotation. I just wanted to make sure that any god causes weren't included.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Immanuel Can »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:47 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:34 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am IF the universe was created THEN...we must exist within some type of Simulated Reality.
Non-sequitur.
The "then" does not logically follow from the "if" there.
So you say. But what is it you are saying?
The "then" does not logically follow from the "if" there. That's what I'm saying. It's illogical. I honestly can't understand how you can possibly believe it, because the words you're using don't add up to coherence, let alone truth. "Simulated" is, by definition, "not real," or "artificial," or "illusory." But every illusion, unreality or artificiality is only detectable in reference to reality.

Yet you say you have no evidence of such a reality. So you have no basis on which to speak of "simulations." There's nothing to be "simulated."
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Therefore if there is no evidence that the universe was created it is not a creation.

Is there any evidence which might sugest it is a simulated reality.

If there was then it wouldnt matter if we do not have access to any evidence of an alternate univrse which brought about this one.
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:23 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:59 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:52 am

Certainly creation took place which doesn't mean a god did it or had anything to do with it.
Where in the OP is there any claim that 'a god did it'?

"Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?"

If it is a creation as you claim, then where is your evidence?
Anything which didn't exist before had to be created whether the process is known or not. Is there a mystery here? Also, in the OP there is no a claim that god did it. Having admitted that, creation, for many, has a religious connotation. I just wanted to make sure that any god causes weren't included.
If this is a creation then it stands to reason there will be a creator or creators.

We may even be the ones who created it so there is no requirment to make up gods and be religious about it...
Dubious
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Dubious »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:53 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:23 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:59 am

Where in the OP is there any claim that 'a god did it'?

"Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?"

If it is a creation as you claim, then where is your evidence?
Anything which didn't exist before had to be created whether the process is known or not. Is there a mystery here? Also, in the OP there is no a claim that god did it. Having admitted that, creation, for many, has a religious connotation. I just wanted to make sure that any god causes weren't included.
If this is a creation then it stands to reason there will be a creator or creators.

We may even be the ones who created it so there is no requirment to make up gods and be religious about it...
Interesting you should mention that because quite a long time ago I wrote that the creation of a universe may not require a god as we normally imagine it. I wrote at that time if the likes of us were advanced enough and knew all the ingredients it's not so inconceivable that we could bake one up ourselves. That was merely to state that the usual god format may not be required in its creation as most religions would have it. As expected, no-one replied to what seemed a complete non-sequitur.
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by Skepdick »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 am IF the universe was created THEN...we must exist within some type of Simulated Reality.

What it is simulating is beyond our reach with the present devices of science.

Are we able to identify possible evidence which scientific research has uncovered within this universe which could point to the possibility we do actually exist within a creation?
No. If X then Y always falls prey to Curry's paradox. It's a self-affirming trusim.

This is why science has testing AND falsification.

You need at least two alternatives.

Hypothesis A: If X then Y
Hypothesis B: if X then Z

And you need "measurement" to discern A from B.

And you need falsification so you can figure out that there was a third option that you didn't even think about.
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:44 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:53 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:23 am

Anything which didn't exist before had to be created whether the process is known or not. Is there a mystery here? Also, in the OP there is no a claim that god did it. Having admitted that, creation, for many, has a religious connotation. I just wanted to make sure that any god causes weren't included.
If this is a creation then it stands to reason there will be a creator or creators.

We may even be the ones who created it so there is no requirment to make up gods and be religious about it...
Interesting you should mention that because quite a long time ago I wrote that the creation of a universe may not require a god as we normally imagine it. I wrote at that time if the likes of us were advanced enough and knew all the ingredients it's not so inconceivable that we could bake one up ourselves. That was merely to state that the usual god format may not be required in its creation as most religions would have it. As expected, no-one replied to what seemed a complete non-sequitur.
Most are stuck in that paradigm. It is why the fact atheists exist. They cannot think of the idea that we exist within a creation because it implies a 'creator' and the only creators on offer are the gods of religion.
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VVilliam
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Re: IF the universe was created THEN...

Post by VVilliam »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:41 am
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:47 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:34 am
Non-sequitur.
The "then" does not logically follow from the "if" there.
So you say. But what is it you are saying?
Yet you say you have no evidence of such a reality.
On the contrary. What I actually said was I don't have the kind of evidence that one can show the others. I did not say that I have not experienced the evidence for myself.
So I do indeed have a basis on which to speak of simulations as practically anything we experience as real.
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