How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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Dontaskme
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How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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You cannot tell the difference at first. You can only KNOW one by being the OTHERImage

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Lacewing
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:30 am You cannot tell the difference at first. You can only KNOW one by being the OTHER
From what I can tell...

Anyone can be anything. Under different circumstances, I might be a murderer or a terrorist... or, yes :lol:, a Trump supporter! At the same time, no specific circumstances are required or responsible for what/how we choose. Empathy, however, does seem necessary in order to recognize our connections with any perceived "otherness". Otherwise, we might be wrongly convinced of our separateness from all else (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary throughout all of nature). Man often divides and destroys -- which is a depleted position. Nature builds and heals and exchanges broader value through cooperation and connection -- which is an empowered position.
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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[quote=Dontaskme post_id=480746 time=1605868252 user_id=12017]
You cannot tell the difference at first. You can only KNOW one by being the OTHER[img]download/file.php?avatar=12017_1603561115.jpg[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... A&usqp=CAU[/img]
[/quote]

There's no such thing as an empath. All it means is that they care about other people's emotions, whether or not they should and whether or not they're any good at it.
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Dontaskme
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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Lacewing wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:30 am You cannot tell the difference at first. You can only KNOW one by being the OTHER
From what I can tell...

Anyone can be anything. Under different circumstances, I might be a murderer or a terrorist... or, yes :lol:, a Trump supporter! At the same time, no specific circumstances are required or responsible for what/how we choose.
Yes, but if we are knowledgable, then surely we can choose to be a particular character of our choosing via the knowledge of that character, by association, by believing that known character exists or is real? surely we are then responsible for who we choose to be?


Lacewing wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 pmEmpathy, however, does seem necessary in order to recognize our connections with any perceived "otherness".
Yes, and not because we are Empathic people, but because we know via sensation that pain is bad and pleasure is good. So that is how we make connections with others because we know by first hand experience that sentient beings feel the same pain, struggle and emotion.

Lacewing wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 pmOtherwise, we might be wrongly convinced of our separateness from all else (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary throughout all of nature).
Yes, we can know our separateness from others is an illusion simply from knowing we all share the same capacity to be aware and feel sensation and emotion.

Lacewing wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 pmMan often divides and destroys -- which is a depleted position. Nature builds and heals and exchanges broader value through cooperation and connection -- which is an empowered position.
I'm not sure what you are saying or meaning here, because I see nature as a cruel phenomena with no real empathy for anything. Sentient creatures feel pain and die in dire and real horrible ways all the time, where just being alive is likened to being trapped inside a horror movie. Or like being on a broken wild and wacky roller coaster ride that leads only to death and destruction.

All we can do is at least have empathy for all other sentient creatures that have to go through the same torture of being a sentient lifeform, and to willingly accept that what we all experience will be our lot for this life experience.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:30 am You cannot tell the difference at first. You can only KNOW one by being the OTHERImage

Image
I’d say, be a Sherlock. Apply logic to the conditions. Examining the nature of pure empathy, we see that by definition it erases all boundaries, and one becomes a pure mirror of reality, without much if any of a dualistic, separate identity from the other. Such is the burden of non-duality. The other cries, pure empathy cries. The other laughs, pure empathy laughs. Pure empathy is rare for it lacks any filters for calculating boundaries. Such people can be annoying. Sometimes they end up in institutions. Sometimes, like UG Krishnamurti, they find themselves defenseless to the world, on a park bench in Zurich, smitten into stillness by the wonder of it all so deep that it effects a physical transformation … to eventually be found by a patron.

On the other hand, a mindful, mature if not somewhat sophisticated empathetic person retains, or in UG's case (and others) rebuilds, like learning how to walk again, the necessary degree of separation, boundaries, respect, etc. This all points to appropriateness.

Personally, I once had a live teaching from an authentic source within a respected tradition who advised mindfulness to appropriateness, and I don’t think a day has passed since that I haven’t considered this aspect of life, not that it's made me a saint. Appropriateness is how to integrate the purity of empathy with the jungle. Appropriateness dictates the nature of your response. Here’s the rub. You to need to properly perceive what is real to see what’s appropriate. You may be surprised when you do.

As far as the rest of it goes? Simply take this empathy map generously provided and apply it to what you know of sociopaths.
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Dontaskme
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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Walker. . . for me, awakening to the truth was the end of knowledge. It was the end of the pretence game.

For most awakened people, waking up from the dream/nightmare, is the end of the game so far.

Let those who want to play the game play their game. I'm just so done with this stupid dumb game playing.

I long for the long big deep sleep. I just hope I never wake up again, for who knows where I will end up next, hopefully not as a north korean baby where the nightmare continues to thrill exactly where it left off, nothing changes. I know what is real, and what is real, really really sucks so bad.

I wish for the swift extinction of human being out of empathy for all those who suffer this horror show of a life. That's all I could ever hope for.

Extinction is real. I really do wish for this real to be the ultimate release from all suffering sentient creatures.
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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I agree with much of what you have said there . Extinction is the only way guaranteed to end human suffering in all of its various manifestations . Far from being something to be feared death is a release from such suffering and so should not be feared at all . I think death is eternal and that is the reason why I am not even remotely afraid of it . Since it cannot actually be experienced because when you are dead you are not capable of experiencing anything at all
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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[quote=surreptitious57 post_id=482083 time=1606580487 user_id=9490]
I agree with much of what you have said there . Extinction is the only way guaranteed to end human suffering in all of its various manifestations . Far from being something to be feared death is a release from such suffering and so should not be feared at all . I think death is eternal and that is the reason why I am not even remotely afraid of it . Since it cannot actually be experienced because when you are dead you are not capable of experiencing anything at all
[/quote]

Maybe not the only way. Virtualisation seems to hold promise for eliminating suffering. At least it's the only way possible for non-domesticated lower life-forms. The larger question is whether, if we survive, we will try to eliminate suffering by virtualising everything or eliminate it by eliminating everything, transcend and leave everything else to suffer, or begin to consider it morally acceptable.

If we accept the undesirability of suffering as a moral absolute, the rest of ethics can rest upon it, as SH has said. What remains is to reduce the amount of undesired states of mind in order of whoever feels most harmed by them. Sometimes that will mean changing the nature of society itself, and sometimes it'll be a hug.
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Dontaskme
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Re: How can you KNOW the difference? which is which?

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surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:21 pm I agree with much of what you have said there . Extinction is the only way guaranteed to end human suffering in all of its various manifestations . Far from being something to be feared death is a release from such suffering and so should not be feared at all . I think death is eternal and that is the reason why I am not even remotely afraid of it . Since it cannot actually be experienced because when you are dead you are not capable of experiencing anything at all
I'm with you on this one. I think death is life's reward. Who wouldn't want that. We look forward to going to sleep everynight just to escape the daily grind of living, so why not make looking forward to death. I love the fact that I am able to disappear each night when I fall asleep, even though that break is only for a temporal moment.

Extinction is coming for all life on earth, we can speed up the process with our conscious intelligent knowledge of being aware that the pain and suffering of all sentient creatures really is a very bad idea. But for now it will continue as long as we turn a blind eye to the truth by pretending it's all worth it.
Nature will help end it all by manifesting more and more killer diseases and viruses. Hopefully this earthly life is a one off event and that it has only ever happened ONCE in the entire universe.

In any case, the sun will eventually explode and all that was life on earth will be gone for good hopefully. But until that happens, Death will only be eternal when every last human or animal sentient feeling creature is extinct. For when I die personally, there will still remain the people who have not yet died, and then there will be their offspring, and on and on it will continue, until we become wise and intelligent enough to know when enough is really and truly enough, until then, it's business as usual.




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