An argument for the existence of God

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:31 am

RIW wrote:dear Fogedinhell
The math shows that things move from order to disorder. but the same math shows that it can move from disorder to order. When a rock erodes into the ocean and becomes part of a living thing has it moved from order or to order. and I said that God enables evolution it does not control it. so what math are you referring to. and Hay! who's the fool the fool or the philosopher
calling a philosopher with a different view a fool.
No, things always move from order to disorder. Otherwise, you would violate the second law. You are just wrong.

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Bernard
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by Bernard » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:56 am

ForgedinHell wrote: The elite science is physics. I actually think the quote "All science is physics or stamp collecting" is true. In any event, something has always existed, so it's not an issue. Philosophy is basically kids making mud pies, while science is sending probes into deep space. I'm sticking with the science people.
If that's the way you feel, why are you here then? Have you come to save us from ourselves, from philosophy? Shall we all become physicists and mathematicians because it's you what you think we should all be properly doing. What if you're wrong, which if you think about it is likely, as you are projecting yourself and ideas only - no ability to step in another's shoes here except for the sake of a bit of personal amusement.

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:06 am

Bernard wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote: The elite science is physics. I actually think the quote "All science is physics or stamp collecting" is true. In any event, something has always existed, so it's not an issue. Philosophy is basically kids making mud pies, while science is sending probes into deep space. I'm sticking with the science people.
If that's the way you feel, why are you here then? Have you come to save us from ourselves, from philosophy? Shall we all become physicists and mathematicians because it's you what you think we should all be properly doing. What if you're wrong, which if you think about it is likely, as you are projecting yourself and ideas only - no ability to step in another's shoes here except for the sake of a bit of personal amusement.
Stamping out illiteracy and bigotry is a good thing, and this site contains such things in abundance. For example, your statement to me just now was what is a personal attack that does not refute my argument. Why are you here if you continue to remain so ignorant of the most basic principles of reason?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:29 am

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Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Bernard
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by Bernard » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:56 am

ForgedinHell wrote:Stamping out illiteracy and bigotry is a good thing, and this site contains such things in abundance. For example, your statement to me just now was what is a personal attack that does not refute my argument. Why are you here if you continue to remain so ignorant of the most basic principles of reason?
You made an attack on philosophy on a philosophy forum. How bigotted, illiterate and unreasonable is that? Personal attacks have there place, and you open yourself to it purposefully. My guess as to why you are how is that you're a bit low on funds, or just greedy, and so you're being as irrational and anti social as possible so someone says or does something in your direction that you could sue them for. You're argument I didn't attempt to refute because there was no argument, just a slur on philosophy. Your universities wouldn't have come into being without philosophy.

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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by thedoc » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:28 am

ForgedinHell wrote: I'm not assuming anything. The universe we live in is dying. It's average temperature is barely above absolute zero as it is and the total energy in our universe is zero. It is rather ironic that you think I am uneducated when it is you who is not even aware of one of the most fundamental laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics. Consider yourself to be an uneducated fool until you learn about it.
It seems that you are assuming that I am not aware of this law of physics, and while I may not be able to quote it off the top of my head it is not something that I have not heard before. But I am capable of learning and now I am learning which posters are not worth reading.

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:40 am

thedoc wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote: I'm not assuming anything. The universe we live in is dying. It's average temperature is barely above absolute zero as it is and the total energy in our universe is zero. It is rather ironic that you think I am uneducated when it is you who is not even aware of one of the most fundamental laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics. Consider yourself to be an uneducated fool until you learn about it.
It seems that you are assuming that I am not aware of this law of physics, and while I may not be able to quote it off the top of my head it is not something that I have not heard before. But I am capable of learning and now I am learning which posters are not worth reading.
You don't know the law at all, your prior posts that contradict the law are ample proof of that. So, I assume nothing, I have demonstrative evidence for my position. And merely hearing about the law or looking up the definition will not result in you understanding it, and learning how to apply it.

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:46 am

RIW wrote:dear Fogedinhell
The math shows that things move from order to disorder. but the same math shows that it can move from disorder to order. When a rock erodes into the ocean and becomes part of a living thing has it moved from order or to order. and I said that God enables evolution it does not control it. so what math are you referring to. and Hay! who's the fool the fool or the philosopher
calling a philosopher with a different view a fool.
Disorder is the only direction in which things flow. Any order to see always comes at the expense of an even greater amount of disorder. Now, here is the trick: IF you conceive of god as infinite, then it would have to include you, me, all that we observe in the natural realm. If not, then god would be bounded, and, therefore, finite, which is a position you do not hold to. But, if god is infinite, and part of the natural realm, then that means god is governed by the natural physical laws, which would indicate that god has no will, desire, etc. Furthermore, since the natural realm is becoming increasingly disorder, then so would god. Welcome to the Spinozist view of "god". If you really believed god was infinite, then you should have discovered the logical conlclusion yourself. What you actually believe in is some god that is apart, i.e., finite and bounded.

thedoc
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by thedoc » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:20 am

Thus God disappears in a puff of logic, - well done.

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attofishpi
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by attofishpi » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:34 am

thedoc wrote:Thus God disappears in a puff of logic, - well done.
Image

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RIW
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by RIW » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:10 pm

Dear Forgedinhell
Ok this would be true if you limit the infinite to the events of the big bang. But if the infinite existed prior to the big bang, and I believe it must have! Would your statement still be true? Would not all the universes in a muitvers be part of the same infinite?

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:27 pm

RIW wrote:Dear Forgedinhell
Ok this would be true if you limit the infinite to the events of the big bang. But if the infinite existed prior to the big bang, and I believe it must have! Would your statement still be true? Would not all the universes in a muitvers be part of the same infinite?
No, it's true even in a multiverse. The fact is Spinoza's god was in trouble when the idea of the multiverse did not exist. A multiverse brings back determinism in our physical laws, so the multiverse strengthens Spinoza's position, it does not weaken it. But, even without it, it wouldn't matter. God cannot be infinite and have a will, desire, etc., because to be infinite means it is subject to physical laws that govern its actions.

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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by chaz wyman » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:30 pm

RIW wrote:Dear Forgedinhell
Ok this would be true if you limit the infinite to the events of the big bang. But if the infinite existed prior to the big bang, and I believe it must have! Would your statement still be true? Would not all the universes in a muitvers be part of the same infinite?
You are asserting things for which you have no, and can have no evidence or support.
'infinite' is a human concept and has such cannot pre-exist humans, let alone the universe.
By definition the universe is all there is.

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ForgedinHell
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:40 pm

chaz wyman wrote:
RIW wrote:Dear Forgedinhell
Ok this would be true if you limit the infinite to the events of the big bang. But if the infinite existed prior to the big bang, and I believe it must have! Would your statement still be true? Would not all the universes in a muitvers be part of the same infinite?
You are asserting things for which you have no, and can have no evidence or support.
'infinite' is a human concept and has such cannot pre-exist humans, let alone the universe.
By definition the universe is all there is.
No, I am not making claims for which I have no support. It is you who is making claims about subjects you know nothing about. Of course, since you claim all Jews are racist, that the Jews control the entire US economy, and that Jews must hate Muslims, I doubt you ever concern yourself with evidence anyway.

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attofishpi
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Re: An argument for the existence of God

Post by attofishpi » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:39 pm

Ok...glad all the dialogue has ceased re infinity...

Can anyone take their veil from their eyes and actually state that the following locations on our dear planet are nothing more than coincidences of reality?

UK to scale - (including the Aisle of Man)
Image

South America to scale - a rather large Bra is ill. Chile a thin backbone. Natal (dict of or relating to childbirth) the nipple
Image

SINAI - the location where man was instructed commandments to abide by from an ALL knowing entity..God - an AI in a binary universe?
Sin AI.
Image




http://www.androcies.com

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