What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

So what's really going on?

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chaz wyman
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth...

Post by chaz wyman »

Kayla wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:Your irony is misplaced.
I am telling the truth I am not judging.
Please don't judge me falsely.
what was your point in saying that there are lots of chinese people in our universities.

Because it is the first time that Chinese people have been able to leave their own country.

at my school all the top students are asian or jewish or girls of all backgrounds.

So what?I was talking about CHINESE people, not asians or Jews. I mean literally people FROM the Chinese republic.
Get it?
You are turning this into something about race. Are you a racist?

white guys and to be fair black and hispanic guys too are as i pointed out too busy

It seems you, like the rest of your countryfolk, is obsessed with race, What are you going on about?

this week i actually heard this loser go on how its not fair that white guys cant get into universities cause the chinese are studying all the time and get top marks well duh

I fail to see how this is relevant, Why do you think it is important?
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Kayla
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth...

Post by Kayla »

chaz wyman wrote:So what?I was talking about CHINESE people, not asians or Jews. I mean literally people FROM the Chinese republic.
wat is your point

a lot of the asians at my school are literally from the peoples republic of china
You are turning this into something about race. Are you a racist?
are you a communist
chaz wyman
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth...

Post by chaz wyman »

Kayla wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:So what?I was talking about CHINESE people, not asians or Jews. I mean literally people FROM the Chinese republic.
wat is your point

a lot of the asians at my school are literally from the peoples republic of china
You are turning this into something about race. Are you a racist?
are you a communist
Get that bug out of your arse or I am not going to talk to you anymore.
tbieter
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by tbieter »

chaz wyman wrote:
spike wrote:"Those who believe that truth is a matter of correspondence with reality have nothing to do except debate (forever, as it has turned out) with those who believe the opposite." - Stanley Fish
" I oft times tell Ootah about Englishmens. How they give names to dogs and take off hats to womans, and march into battle, left - right, left -right with rifles on their shoulders." - Billy Fish The Man Who Would be King
______________________________________

I'm reading Fish's new book on Kindle. When I read Lord Acton's sentence on page 47 in Fish's book, I thought the he had erred. But, he apparently wrote both sentences, adding the qualifying word "tend" later, I assume Unfortunately, his sources are not given in brainyquotes.com.

The qualification is significant and probably is THE TRUTH.


“Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
Fish, Stanley (2011). How to Write a Sentence: And How to Read One (p. 47). Harper Collins, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
____________________________________________

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Lord Acton

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Lord Acton
Read more:http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... z1Oivalpcj
Mark Question
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Mark Question »

in this case, the butler did it. no, sorry. the subject did it. whats stopping us not to go home after work every night driving like a drunken naked monkey who dont even remember the right door or what guns those angry people own? my old poison-maker granny could solve that like a cup of tea:
-subject: do you see the truth?..do you see the truth!!!?
-i see the truth!
-case closed.
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Satyr
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Satyr »

Two things...
First, the truth is a human abstraction of reality.
Therefore it is relative the the mind constructing it.
The more a mind perceives or can incorporate into its mental models, abstractions, the more intricate its "truth" is.

Second, reality is fluid, and truth is a static representation of it, which no matter how up to date it is, it is lagging behind.
Reality is a process, truth is a model of it.
Reality is dynamic and ongoing - it is constant interactivity. Truth is static.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.


Well done Satyr.

I am really enjoying your postings.


Your post above was well thought out and definitely well written.

Judging from the time marks between your last post and Mark Question's post was less than twenty minutes.

Well done.


Your style is an example of one of the many things that I like about this forum and the characteristics of this type of internet exchange.


The active members of the Philosophy Now Forum are changing the perception of what a philosopher is today as a citizen of the world.




I want to thank everyone who has participated upon this thread.

All excellent posts.


Interesting, well written perspectives presented in a world wide discussion format.


Love the Philosophy Now Forum.


Big ups to Rick Lewis and all the Philosophy Now participating philosophers.



Truth.

.
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Arising_uk
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Arising_uk »

Satyr wrote:Second, reality is fluid, and truth is a static representation of it, which no matter how up to date it is, it is lagging behind.
Reality is a process, truth is a model of it.
Reality is dynamic and ongoing - it is constant interactivity. Truth is static.
Whilst I think I understand what you say, the way you describe it means "truth" cannot be static as if it was it would not just be 'lagging' and you'd not be able to update it.
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Satyr
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Satyr »

Arising_uk wrote:
Satyr wrote:Second, reality is fluid, and truth is a static representation of it, which no matter how up to date it is, it is lagging behind.
Reality is a process, truth is a model of it.
Reality is dynamic and ongoing - it is constant interactivity. Truth is static.
Whilst I think I understand what you say, the way you describe it means "truth" cannot be static as if it was it would not just be 'lagging' and you'd not be able to update it.
My dear, engaging you is as frustrating as trying to talk about art to a five year old.

No, dear little girl, there is no truth, but only perspectives, interpretations of reality. But no two interpretations are created equal, as they vary in the amount of details included in the abstractions and the successful projection of them, unemotionally and with as little self-interest present, using the imagination.
I've underlined it because you seem to have trouble determining the parts that matter.

This is why you can have a rather inferior, in the analytical sense, mind or a mind guided by inferior sensual awareness, being able to have a clearer picture of reality.
While a man can perceive more details he may lack the imagination or the courage to project them effectively into useful, for him, directions.

This is why consciousness is ongoing and not a one time deal. It is a continuous updating of integrations.
That there is no absolute truth, or a truth taken literally as a static thing, does not mean that there are no superior or inferior perspectives of reality.
Otherwise how did consciousness evolve, or why does intelligence matter....and what exactly is being selected in natural selection if all is equal and the same or an illusion, as some New Age hippies and old age Buddhists will have it?
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Arising_uk
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Arising_uk »

Satyr wrote:My dear, engaging you is as frustrating as trying to talk about art to a five year old.

No, dear little girl, there is no truth, but only perspectives, interpretations of reality. But no two interpretations are created equal, as they vary in the amount of details included in the abstractions and the successful projection of them, unemotionally and with as little self-interest present, using the imagination.
I've underlined it because you seem to have trouble determining the parts that matter.

This is why you can have a rather inferior, in the analytical sense, mind or a mind guided by inferior sensual awareness, being able to have a clearer picture of reality.
While a man can perceive more details he may lack the imagination or the courage to project them effectively into useful, for him, directions.

This is why consciousness is ongoing and not a one time deal. It is a continuous updating of integrations.
That there is no absolute truth, or a truth taken literally as a static thing, does not mean that there are no superior or inferior perspectives of reality.
Otherwise how did consciousness evolve, or why does intelligence matter....and what exactly is being selected in natural selection if all is equal and the same or an illusion, as some New Age hippies and old age Buddhists will have it?
Sorry, I used the wrong scare-quotes, it should have been 'truth', so no need to bother with the bulk of your response as I pretty much agree with it. It was your explanations I was confused about as they appeared to contradict themselves with the idea of something being 'static' being able to be updated, i.e. they are dynamic but just in a different timescale from what they are describing.

I'd have thought, given your description of 'nature' that neither consciouness nor intelligence matters not a jot, apart from mattering to the things that have it that is.

Good job I'm not a hippie nor a buddhist then.
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Satyr
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Satyr »

Arising_uk wrote: Sorry, I used the wrong scare-quotes, it should have been 'truth', so no need to bother with the bulk of your response as I pretty much agree with it.
Dear girl, you women often use these games to poke and draw attention. All innocent and shit.
You coy little girl, you.
Arising_uk wrote: It was your explanations I was confused about as they appeared to contradict themselves with the idea of something being 'static' being able to be updated, i.e. they are dynamic but just in a different timescale from what they are describing.
Again, woman, the contradictions are not in my opinions but in your understanding of them. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that they are intentionally projected there...because a girl has needs.
Arising_uk wrote:I'd have thought, given your description of 'nature' that neither consciouness nor intelligence matters not a jot, apart from mattering to the things that have it that is.
But consciousness and intelligence do matter all the more in a dynamic reality, dear woman.
How else, sweetie, would consciousness progress and grow, and how else would intelligence be dominant and exceedingly overpowering.

Let me explain, because no matter how many pages I write you are still confused princess.

Nature: The sum of all the interactions that preceded one's emergence and/or birth. I also call this essence and spirit, with none of that religious superposition.
Nurture: The sum of all the ongoing interactions that immediately affect the flourishing or the retardation of all the previous interactions.

Ergo, little woman, nurture cannot totally erase nature and nature, even if denied, cannot be dismissed with human contrivances and/or mimetic effects.
Now, babycakes, using what I just said the feminine/masculine divide becomes clearer.

You can call it Apollonian/Dionysian or animus/anima or Yin/Yang or you can call it Shirley.

The feminine attitude, shaped by the female's sexual role, is one associated with nature or the acceptance of entropy.
A towards nothingness.
It is one of acceptance, in general...tolerance.
It characterizes your New Age's progressive, liberal, democratic attitudes.

It's nihilism consists in total chaos, the emptiness as Buddhists call it. It is a negative nihilism even though it is often given a positive spin.
Judeo-Christian thought has a knack for turning reality on its head.
But of course, in true religious style it selectively saves itself by retaining consciousness as the indestructible, timeless, eternal thing.
So it keeps to the assumed immutable absolute.

The masculine attitude shaped by its sexual role, is one of resistance, rejection, discrimination, against entropy.
This is why males are idealists and then sell this to females who go along with anything that promises the absent absolute.
The male is about conflict, resistance. He, therefore, goes against the flow, counter to entropy and towards an absolute something...whatever it might be. The abstraction is always ambiguous because it is nonexistent...so it can take on any form and be projected as anything.
This is often misconstrued as free-will.
It's nihilism is on a positive kind, as it promises an absolute state of Being, in the eternal Becoming...a final destination, an end.
It is defined by conservatism as to conserve means to resist change..and also by traditional values, as turning back to the past, a higher state of order, given the continuous entropic decay, is preferred.

In fact we might say that the real rebels are the conservatives as they reject the status quo of eternal change, or entropy...and it is the so called progressives who offer an acceptance of change, or what occurs naturally and without effort in the universe.
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Arising_uk
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Arising_uk »

Satyr wrote:Dear girl, you women often use these games to poke and draw attention. All innocent and shit.
You coy little girl, you. ...
You think I'm an avowed liar like you?
Again, woman, the contradictions are not in my opinions but in your understanding of them. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that they are intentionally projected there...because a girl has needs. ...
Ones you appear to not be able to satisy, so thats me and your ex. So you disagree that your 'static' is only as such from a certain timescale?
But consciousness and intelligence do matter all the more in a dynamic reality, dear woman.
How else, sweetie, would consciousness progress and grow, and how else would intelligence be dominant and exceedingly overpowering. ...
The dominant life-forms upon this planet, in terms of species survival, appear to be those without such. According to you these traits will be the ruin of us? How do you reconcile this?
Let me explain, because no matter how many pages I write you are still confused princess.

Nature: The sum of all the interactions that preceded one's emergence and/or birth. I also call this essence and spirit, with none of that religious superposition.
Nurture: The sum of all the ongoing interactions that immediately affect the flourishing or the retardation of all the previous interactions.

Ergo, little woman, nurture cannot totally erase nature and nature, even if denied, cannot be dismissed with human contrivances and/or mimetic effects.
Now, babycakes, using what I just said the feminine/masculine divide becomes clearer.

You can call it Apollonian/Dionysian or animus/anima or Yin/Yang or you can call it Shirley.

The feminine attitude, shaped by the female's sexual role, is one associated with nature or the acceptance of entropy.
A towards nothingness.
It is one of acceptance, in general...tolerance.
It characterizes your New Age's progressive, liberal, democratic attitudes.

It's nihilism consists in total chaos, the emptiness as Buddhists call it. It is a negative nihilism even though it is often given a positive spin.
Judeo-Christian thought has a knack for turning reality on its head.
But of course, in true religious style it selectively saves itself by retaining consciousness as the indestructible, timeless, eternal thing.
So it keeps to the assumed immutable absolute.

The masculine attitude shaped by its sexual role, is one of resistance, rejection, discrimination, against entropy.
This is why males are idealists and then sell this to females who go along with anything that promises the absent absolute.
The male is about conflict, resistance. He, therefore, goes against the flow, counter to entropy and towards an absolute something...whatever it might be. The abstraction is always ambiguous because it is nonexistent...so it can take on any form and be projected as anything.
This is often misconstrued as free-will.
It's nihilism is on a positive kind, as it promises an absolute state of Being, in the eternal Becoming...a final destination, an end.
It is defined by conservatism as to conserve means to resist change..and also by traditional values, as turning back to the past, a higher state of order, given the continuous entropic decay, is preferred.

In fact we might say that the real rebels are the conservatives as they reject the status quo of eternal change, or entropy...and it is the so called progressives who offer an acceptance of change, or what occurs naturally and without effort in the universe.
So the point or positive intention of all this metaphysics is what? Conservatives good, Progessivists bad? Given that entropy ends in a state of no change how do you have them equal and eternal?
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Satyr
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Satyr »

Arising_uk wrote:You think I'm an avowed liar like you?
No, I think even less of you.
A liar actually knows some part of the truth, you have no idea at all. You are convinced that your delusions are fact.

You lie to yourself, because it suits you.
Arising_uk wrote:Ones you appear to not be able to satisy, so thats me and your ex. So you disagree that your 'static' is only as such from a certain timescale?
Like a typical woman you use gossip and insinuation to emotionally affect because rationally you have nothing to offer.
you have about as much of an idea about what reality is as you do about my ex-wife and what resulted in our divorce.
The fact that I do know, makes your feeble pokes all the more entertaining and girlish.

Tell me the truth, have you ever had sexual fantasies about a man?
Arising_uk wrote:The dominant life-forms upon this planet, in terms of species survival, appear to be those without such. According to you these traits will be the ruin of us? How do you reconcile this?
I reconcile it by wanting to remain higher than a bug, unlike you, and by placing dignity above survival, even if this means my extermination.
But sometimes quality rises above the dirt. I dream of preparing the ground.

But you, dear woman, are dirt itself.
Your nature is denied yet you abide by it, because you deny it.
You cannot control what you deny is present. So, your stupidity and femininity remains dominant because you deny it as a concept or as being a dominating determinant in your psychology.
Arising_uk wrote:So the point or positive intention of all this metaphysics is what? Conservatives good, Progessivists bad? Given that entropy ends in a state of no change how do you have them equal and eternal?
Dear woman, I cannot dumb-it-down to the point where i indulge your obsessions with good and evil or the dichotomies you jerk-off to.

I simply describe reality, and binary logic is a big part of how people think.
I urge nobody to follow this or that path, because I wish natural selection to take its toll without me intervening.

If I describe how sex entails a sense of domination and submission, and that penetration is an intrusive act which differentiates the male from the female demeanor, this does not mean that I am telling you to stop enjoying getting it up your arse, my little girlish friend.
You can suck dick and stretch your sphincter all you like and I will not prevent you from doing so...but neither can you prevent me from judging you because of it.
You cannot tell me that judging another is evil or a sign of a complex or weak just so that you getting fucked becomes less embarrassing to you or less indicative of your womanly nature.

I judge a creature by observing its activities, its behavior... and so preventing me from passing judgment upon you using your activities, your words being amongst those, is like trying to place a limit on my consciousness. I will not have it.
I know it works on your stupid friends, but it will not on me.

Your little womanly methods, which you've learned from others, no doubt, are typical and so predictable and ineffective.
For instance your other buddies use the "ignoring" tactic or dismissal, or shame or communal ostracizing to drive the offensive element away and to return to their regurgitating docile cow-herd reality.
All very effective peer pressure methods, often used and often observed by me in everyday life.

This is why I love these places. I can observe my ideas in real-time.
I can see them pan out in real life rather than in theory.
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Dunce
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Dunce »

Sometimes




in order to




see the truth




we need to




read between





the lines.
creativesoul
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Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by creativesoul »

Remove "the" from "the truth" and you'll begin to be able to see truth aright. Truth is central to everything thought/believed and spoken. Attempts to deny this, presuppose their own truth...necessarily so, and therefore remove the ground upon which they, themselves depend.

It is an idiot's argument.
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