Materialism: How doubt could be real?

[bahman]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

[Agent Smith]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

What, pray tell, is the reason for this doubt you're talking about?

[Harbal]

So how do you resolve this dilemma?

I resolve it by doing what any sensible person would do; ie. nothing.

[bahman]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

What, pray tell, is the reason for this doubt you're talking about?

The point as I illustrated is that there exist two options for when doubt exists whereas in materialism there is only one option allowable.

[bahman]

So how do you resolve this dilemma?

I resolve it by doing what any sensible person would do; ie. nothing.

It seems that you didn't get the problem at hand.

[Agent Smith]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

What, pray tell, is the reason for this doubt you're talking about?

The point as I illustrated is that there exist two options for when doubt exists whereas in materialism there is only one option allowable.

Ah, I see. Have you tried reframing the issue in all materialistic frameworks?

[bahman]

What, pray tell, is the reason for this doubt you're talking about?

The point as I illustrated is that there exist two options for when doubt exists whereas in materialism there is only one option allowable.

Ah, I see. Have you tried reframing the issue in all materialistic frameworks?

What do you mean by all?

[Iwannaplato]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

It seems like you are treating doubt as ontology.

How does the existence of doubt entail that there must be more than one option?

Does desire or confusion or fear or mulling ör any other cognitive state create more options?

How?

How does my not being sure that X will happen entail that a couple of things can happen?

If I doubt I exist do I exist less? If I doubt there is a state t coming, does it become half an outcome?v Why does doubt have ontological power and a kind of magical one it seems?

[bahman]

Materialism is a deterministic viewpoint. Determinism is a viewpoint that for each state X at time t there exists a unique state X at time t+1. In another word, X(t+1)=L(X(t)) where L is a function and tells us how state X(t) evolves to X(t+1).

There exist two states that both are valid and can be reached when we have doubt. This means that system is in the state of X at time t but there are two feasible states available for the system at time t+1, let's call them, Y and Z.

Now here is the dilemma: We can without a doubt say that doubt is real which means that for each state X at time t, there are two states at time t+1 when we have doubt. On the other hand, we think that determinism is true which means that for each state X at time t, only one state exists at time t+1. So how do you resolve this dilemma?

It seems like you are treating doubt as ontology.

Yes, we experience it all the time and it affects our life.

How does the existence of doubt entail that there must be more than one option?

I am talking about the category of the doubt when we are dealing with options, like whether I should buy a lottery ticket or not, etc.

Does desire or confusion or fear or mulling ör any other cognitive state create more options?

How?

It could be depending on the situation in other words if there is tension between options.

How does my not being sure that X will happen entail that a couple of things can happen?

I am talking about the situation in that we know that options exist.

If I doubt I exist do I exist less? If I doubt there is a state t coming, does it become half an outcome?

I am not talking about this kind of doubt.

Why does doubt have ontological power and a kind of magical one it seems?

It has power. You pause for a while when you have a doubt.

[Iwannaplato]

It has power. You pause for a while when you have a doubt.

Person walking utterly determined. Person has a moment of doubt, utterly determined. This doubt imagines there are several possible outcomes, but there aren't. Person decides to go to where they were always heading.

I understand that doubt can be related to a seeming couple of options, but that doesn't mean anything else was going to happen. Just like seeing an illusory oasis in the desert doesn't mean there were two possible futures one will an oasis one without.

[Agent Smith]

The point as I illustrated is that there exist two options for when doubt exists whereas in materialism there is only one option allowable.

Ah, I see. Have you tried reframing the issue in all materialistic frameworks?

What do you mean by all?

Atheists claim there is no god.

[bahman]

It has power. You pause for a while when you have a doubt.

Person walking utterly determined. Person has a moment of doubt, utterly determined. This doubt imagines there are several possible outcomes, but there aren't. Person decides to go to where they were always heading.

I understand that doubt can be related to a seeming couple of options, but that doesn't mean anything else was going to happen. Just like seeing an illusory oasis in the desert doesn't mean there were two possible futures one will an oasis one without.

So to you only one option is real and another one is an illusion?

[bahman]

Ah, I see. Have you tried reframing the issue in all materialistic frameworks?

What do you mean by all?

Atheists claim there is no god.

No, I am not interested in any sort of doubt related to the existence of God. By doubt, I mean that you are in a situation with two options and you don't know what to do because the outcomes of the choices are not clear to you, like buying a lottery ticket.

[Iwannaplato]

It has power. You pause for a while when you have a doubt.

Person walking utterly determined. Person has a moment of doubt, utterly determined. This doubt imagines there are several possible outcomes, but there aren't. Person decides to go to where they were always heading.

I understand that doubt can be related to a seeming couple of options, but that doesn't mean anything else was going to happen. Just like seeing an illusory oasis in the desert doesn't mean there were two possible futures one will an oasis one without.

So to you only one option is real and another one is an illusion?

If it's a deterministic universe, yes.

[Agent Smith]

What do you mean by all?

Atheists claim there is no god.

No, I am not interested in any sort of doubt related to the existence of God. By doubt, I mean that you are in a situation with two options and you don't know what to do because the outcomes of the choices are not clear to you, like buying a lottery ticket.

I intelligo. Are you perhaps harkening back to Descartes' time? What more do you have to add to skepticism?