What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

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popeye1945
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by popeye1945 »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:31 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:46 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:42 pm No, if the world were run by the colour blind, it wouldn't switch to us being called colour blind and them being called normal. It should switch to them being called normal and us having some sort of super-sense, or enhanced vision.

Are you making these posts from your intuition without having read about it? It feels like this is just your intuitive opinion. It's fine as an intuitive opinion, but it's the sort of opinion that will disappear once you start reading about it.
Are you going to try to convenience me that it is not simply a matter of different perceptions due to differences in one's biology? If you wish to do so try to do it in your own words. You do realize that in the real world, there are no colors -- yes? Color is a biological reaction to certain vibrations on the receptors in the eye, probably a little more complex than that, but that is it basically. There are no colors in the real world, just energy and vibrations of said energies.
Taste doesn't exist in the world either, and yet if someone were missing the sensory input for, say, sweetness, most people would be fine with calling that a "deficiency".

You've come in here and said very confidently all sorts of stuff about color blindness that you could only possibly say out of ignorance. This whole "say it in your own words" thing doesn't work, because it's not words that are the problem. No words I could say could stand in for the scientific facts about how color blindness works. I could TELL you the facts, but, as has already been demonstrated, me telling you the facts produces no guarantee that you will accept the facts, which is why I'm encouraging you to cure your ignorance and read about it. You are already apparently not willing to budge just from words alone, which is fair enough, you need evidence. Evidence isn't here, my words cannot constitute the type of evidence that would be effective here, spend some time just reading the Wikipedia page and come back to the conversation a little less ignorant.

I've recommended two podcasts that give at least some interesting background information, the second one talks about color blindness much more than the first but they both have interesting things to say. They are brief overviews for laymen, obviously, and not a replacement for a university textbook or academic journals, but considering you want it in my words, I don't think you're looking to invest the time in a textbook or journals anyway, so perhaps a brief podcast is suitable.

Everyone's sense of taste is not the same, but if they have a sense of taste but it is not just like yours, it is not a defect. If one has no sense of taste, then one has a defect.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by Flannel Jesus »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:41 pm Everyone's sense of taste is not the same, but if they have a sense of taste but it is not just like yours, it is not a defect. If one has no sense of taste, then one has a defect.
You didn't quite get what I was talking about with that example, but that's okay.

Check out this from a website for colour blindness awareness:
Being ‘red/green colour blind’ means people with it can easily confuse any colours which have some red or green as part of the whole colour. So someone with red/green colour blindness is likely to confuse blue and purple because they can’t ‘see’ the red element of the colour purple. See the example of pink, purple and blue pen cases above to understand this effect.
https://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/

They have a whole third of their colour sensing cones malfunctioning, and therefore cannot distinguish blue and purple.

Having all of your cones working categorically allows you to distinguish more colours than someone with only 2 cones working.
Skepdick
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by Skepdick »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:41 pm Everyone's sense of taste is not the same, but if they have a sense of taste but it is not just like yours, it is not a defect. If one has no sense of taste, then one has a defect.
Defect is not total dysfunction.
defect noun/ˈdiːfɛkt/ a shortcoming, imperfection, or lack.
Imagine you couldn't taste the difference between salt and sugar. It's not that they don't have a taste - it's that they taste exactly the same.

You lack the ability to tell them apart.
You have a shortcomming - you can't taste the difference between salt and sugar, but you can taste the similarity.

That's a defect.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun May 28, 2023 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
popeye1945
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by popeye1945 »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:43 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:41 pm Everyone's sense of taste is not the same, but if they have a sense of taste but it is not just like yours, it is not a defect. If one has no sense of taste, then one has a defect.
You didn't quite get what I was talking about with that example, but that's okay.

Check out this from a website for color blindness awareness:
Being ‘red/green color blind’ means people with it can easily confuse any colors which have some red or green as part of the whole color. So someone with red/green color blindness is likely to confuse blue and purple because they can’t ‘see’ the red element of the color purple. See the example of pink, purple and blue pen cases above to understand this effect.
https://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/

They have a whole third of their color-sensing cones malfunctioning, and therefore cannot distinguish blue and purple.

Having all of your cones working categorically allows you to distinguish more colors than someone with only 2 cones working.
The majority standard is set for the majority, if there is physical damage to the eyes sight of a subject then of course damage is damage, but if someone simply perceives a frequency differently than you, that does not amount to defect or damage. My brother was color blind, he brought a new car home he'd bought thinking it was silver gray when in fact it was green to me, and to most everyone else. If this was due to damage and not just to being different then ok it a defect. Is not being aligned with the majority standard considered a defect, or just a biological variation. Anyway, this is not the hill on which I would like die, meaning, I am too lazy to do much reading on the subject.
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iambiguous
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by iambiguous »

Maia wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:30 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:11 pm
Maia wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:23 pm

Well, there's quite a lot there, and I'm much more interested in practical questions such as how we perceive things. As for free will, it very much appears that we have it, so I'm quite happy to assume that we do.
Well, given that I always end up coming back around to what none of us really grasp regarding this...
All of this going back to how the matter we call the human brain was "somehow" able to acquire autonomy when non-living matter "somehow" became living matter "somehow" became conscious matter "somehow" became self-conscious matter.
...it still basically comes down to "your guess is as good as mine".

Anyway, I'm just really, really glad that you are back to posting again.
Thanks. I can't guarantee I'll stick around on a permanent basis, though. We've been very busy at work, for example.
I understand.

You know me, I'll take whatever I can get from you.

Philosophically. 8)
Flannel Jesus
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by Flannel Jesus »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:06 pmI am too lazy to do much reading on the subject.
Fair enough, you should be equally lazy to do much speaking on the subject in the future.

Just for the record, I'm not saying this because you disagree with me. I'm saying this because there are scientific facts about colour blindness, and you're going against those facts without even a minimum of interest in what those facts are, how they were discovered, why scientists consider them facts, etc.

In any realm with a strong scientific consensus, I don't really see how someone could have a strong opinion disagreeing with the consensus without having an equally strong awareness of the consensus and why it is what it is. If someone insists evolution is not true, that's fine, but they need to understand why it is that 95%+ biologists think it's true, and hopefully their understanding amounts to something more substantial than "it's a conspiracy". If they don't have a basic understanding of the reasoning and evidence, then their strong opinion to the contrary just looks like opinionated ignorance.
popeye1945
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Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

Post by popeye1945 »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:50 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:06 pmI am too lazy to do much reading on the subject.
Fair enough, you should be equally lazy to do much speaking on the subject in the future.

Just for the record, I'm not saying this because you disagree with me. I'm saying this because there are scientific facts about color blindness, and you're going against those facts without even a minimum of interest in what those facts are, how they were discovered, why scientists consider them facts, etc.

In any realm with a strong scientific consensus, I don't really see how someone could have a strong opinion disagreeing with the consensus without having an equally strong awareness of the consensus and why it is what it is. If someone insists evolution is not true, that's fine, but they need to understand why it is that 95%+ biologists think it's true, and hopefully their understanding amounts to something more substantial than "it's a conspiracy". If they don't have a basic understanding of the reasoning and evidence, then their strong opinion to the contrary just looks like opinionated ignorance.
Fair enough!!
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