What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind

[Maia]

I never despair. I find the whole thing far too interesting.

That it is, but to your original challenge. As a blind person there is actually a really easy way to convince you that colors exist for other people.

Sadly that doesn't mean I can make you experience colors, it just means I can cure you of undue skepticism.

There's the concept known as a zero-knowledge proof in cryptography (see this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof )

There are a number of experiments/challenges you can pose if you interact with a willing participant who isn't visually impaired.

For example: you can have a keyboard with 8 buttons wired to a multi-coloured LED. You push the buttons behind your back knowing that the light comes on.

The person should have no idea which button you've pushed, but if you run the experiment long enough they'll use the exact same name for the same button you are pushing.

I often say there are two types of knowledge. The first, and primary, one is what we experience with our own senses. The second is what we hear from sources we trust. Colours fall into the latter category, for me. Out of the two types of knowledge, if one contradicts the other, the first one trumps the other.

[Maia]

I delineate sense-perception by Distance.

Sight is furthest. Sound is next. Then Smell. Then Touch. Then Taste, which is most personal (internalized) of all.

Sight and Sound are comparable by how a person can discern and judge actions taking place from a long distance away.

People see an explosion, or an airplane, before we hear it. This is an analogy between sight and sound.


Music is just as "colorful" as Colors. Thus the diversity of sound in music is comparable to the diversity of color in pictures.

Sound is pretty good at long-distances, of course, but with regard to echo-location in particular, depending on conditions, it can be good up to about 30 metres, I reckon. I do it by clicking my tongue, by the way.

[Wizard22]

Sound is pretty good at long-distances, of course, but with regard to echo-location in particular, depending on conditions, it can be good up to about 30 metres, I reckon. I do it by clicking my tongue, by the way.

Oh yeah...?

Well I do it by yelling at the top of my lungs!

[Skepdick]

I often say there are two types of knowledge. The first, and primary, one is what we experience with our own senses. The second is what we hear from sources we trust.

I recognize the distinction, but I also think that if you trust the source then there's no difference between the two types.

If my wife tells me she burned herself on the stove I now know the stove is hot - i don' thave to burn myself also to acquire the same knowledge.

Colours fall into the latter category, for me. Out of the two types of knowledge, if one contradicts the other, the first one trumps the other.

I think you should revise that last part for people whom you trust.

It'l help you acquire more knowledge about the world, despite your visual impairment if you figure out ways to resolve the "contradictions"

[Maia]

Sound is pretty good at long-distances, of course, but with regard to echo-location in particular, depending on conditions, it can be good up to about 30 metres, I reckon. I do it by clicking my tongue, by the way.

Oh yeah...?

Well I do it by yelling at the top of my lungs!

I suppose I could do that too...

[Maia]

I often say there are two types of knowledge. The first, and primary, one is what we experience with our own senses. The second is what we hear from sources we trust.

I recognize the distinction, but I also think that if you trust the source then there's no difference between the two types.

If my wife tells me she burned herself on the stove I now know the stove is hot - i don' thave to burn myself also to acquire the same knowledge.

Colours fall into the latter category, for me. Out of the two types of knowledge, if one contradicts the other, the first one trumps the other.

I think you should revise that last part for people whom you trust.

It'l help you acquire more knowledge about the world, despite your visual impairment if you figure out ways to resolve the "contradictions"

Ones own senses are not perfect, so there's always a bit of give and take, depending on the situation.

[Skepdick]

Ones own senses are not perfect, so there's always a bit of give and take, depending on the situation.

Oh, certainlly! I would far trust your auditory distinctions than my own.

I have ears, but I am completely tonedeaf. I can't tell C from G.

[Maia]

Ones own senses are not perfect, so there's always a bit of give and take, depending on the situation.

Oh, certainlly! I would far trust your auditory distinctions than my own.

I have ears, but I am completely tonedeaf. I can't tell C from G.

I have no special talent for music, but I'm pretty good at using sound for spatial awareness.

[Skepdick]

I have no special talent for music, but I'm pretty good at using sound for spatial awareness.

I mean, it's all relative.

Relative to me your auditor skills are a superpower.

And me relative to a graphics designer my ability to discern colors is basically non-existent.

For that reason alone general intelligence is a nonsense concept. Nobody hones in all of their senses to the limit of possibility.

[Maia]

I have no special talent for music, but I'm pretty good at using sound for spatial awareness.

I mean, it's all relative.

Relative to me your auditor skills are a superpower.

And me relative to a graphics designer my ability to discern colors is basically non-existent.

For that reason alone general intelligence is a nonsense concept. Nobody hones in all of their senses to the limit of possibility.

True, but it's a good idea to train them as much as possible.

[Skepdick]

I delineate sense-perception by Distance.

Physical or conceptual distance?

Conceptual distance is representation-dependent. Different people organize their knowledge differently.

What's a useful metaphor/analogy for one person is a complete derailment for another. We see this alot in machine learnning/vector databases.

[Maia]

Sound is pretty good at long-distances, of course, but with regard to echo-location in particular, depending on conditions, it can be good up to about 30 metres, I reckon. I do it by clicking my tongue, by the way.

Oh yeah...?

Well I do it by yelling at the top of my lungs!

Wizard22, imagine my surprise when I check my emails for today only to find one from yourself, sent via the forum. Well, I know who you are now, the man of a thousand names, and the only person here who could possibly know I'm a redhead, but you'll forgive me, I'm sure, if I don't email you in return.

[iambiguous]

Speaking as someone who is *completely* colour blind, please try and convince me that colours actually exist at all.

Click on this link: https://youtu.be/HU6LfXNeQM4

It's a PBS documentary on how perceptions in the brain are often deceptions.

There's a segment that talks about color. And it notes that color is something that is created in the brain.

It wouldn't play. But I do know that anyway, though.

Of course, my own interest in this revolves around all of the other things our brains might be deceiving us regarding. For example, some argue that we are blind to the fact that human autonomy itself is created entirely in the brain.

I explore that myself here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=198472

[popeye1945]

It looks blue to them just as your blue looks blue to you! It is a matter of frequency perception, neither right nor wrong. The person called color blind simply perceives the frequency as different from the majority because the majority sets the standard. If he could set the standard, you would be the one that is color blind.

[Maia]

Click on this link: https://youtu.be/HU6LfXNeQM4

It's a PBS documentary on how perceptions in the brain are often deceptions.

There's a segment that talks about color. And it notes that color is something that is created in the brain.

It wouldn't play. But I do know that anyway, though.

Of course, my own interest in this revolves around all of the other things our brains might be deceiving us regarding. For example, some argue that we are blind to the fact that human autonomy itself is created entirely in the brain.

I explore that myself here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=198472

Well, there's quite a lot there, and I'm much more interested in practical questions such as how we perceive things. As for free will, it very much appears that we have it, so I'm quite happy to assume that we do.