Everything is Not a Thing

So what's really going on?

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popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:39 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:51 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:36 am

1. "I" repeats therefore is not wholly unique.
2. To reflect reality is to be a part of reality thus is reality.
Apparent reality, for apparent reality, is biological reactions to the energies of the cosmos as opposed to those energies we cannot sense/react to and as such are not manifested objects to us. Objects are not what is, they are the effect of what is upon our biological consciousness, they are biological reactions. The nature of apparent reality is in part due to the nature of one's biology, or apparent reality is relative to biology.
Biology referencing biology leaves biology meaning anything.
Clarify please.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:39 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:39 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:51 am

Apparent reality, for apparent reality, is biological reactions to the energies of the cosmos as opposed to those energies we cannot sense/react to and as such are not manifested objects to us. Objects are not what is, they are the effect of what is upon our biological consciousness, they are biological reactions. The nature of apparent reality is in part due to the nature of one's biology, or apparent reality is relative to biology.
Biology referencing biology leaves biology meaning anything.
Clarify please.
We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made up classification.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:44 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:39 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:39 pm

Biology referencing biology leaves biology meaning anything.
Clarify please.
We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made-up classification.
I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
Belinda
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Belinda »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:44 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:39 am

Clarify please.
We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made-up classification.
I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
I agree with Popeye. No concept exists that does not apply to human experience.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:44 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:39 am

Clarify please.
We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made-up classification.
I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
And yet the biological is composed of meaningless atoms thus making the atom as aware given it is the foundation of consciousness.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:03 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:44 pm

We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made-up classification.
I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
I agree with Popeye. No concept exists that does not apply to human experience.
Concept is awareness. The question is "what is awareness?" From an empirical perspective, not that things can be limited to the empirical, all consciousness is a result of atoms interacting and in these respects consciousness is founded upon the atom. This in turn necessitates consciousness as beyond the human experience given the interaction of atoms, as both the foundation of awareness and the foundation of everything else, is awareness.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:25 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:03 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm

I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
I agree with Popeye. No concept exists that does not apply to human experience.
Concept is awareness. The question is "what is awareness?" From an empirical perspective, not that things can be limited to the empirical, all consciousness is a result of atoms interacting and in these respects consciousness is founded upon the atom. This in turn necessitates consciousness as beyond the human experience given the interaction of atoms, as both the foundation of awareness and the foundation of everything else, is awareness.
Concept is the formation of a complex idea. No one I think is denying the complexity of our biological nature.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
EXCELLENT!!
Advocate
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Advocate »

Every "thing" is a pattern in a mind. It is a set of distinguishing attributes and boundary conditions. Some things have an external referent (instance) or correlate (class). They are purpose dependent and the resolution of the purpose determines the resolution of the pattern. #ontology
Belinda
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Belinda »

Advocate wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:39 pm Every "thing" is a pattern in a mind. It is a set of distinguishing attributes and boundary conditions. Some things have an external referent (instance) or correlate (class). They are purpose dependent and the resolution of the purpose determines the resolution of the pattern. #ontology
Yes, but does the set of every "thing" include immediate affects such as pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria? It's easy to believe that these immediate affects have physical correlates but these sheer affects pertain only to the experiencing subject who has privileged access to them. Immediate affects , which have not been moderated by intellect or memory, i.e. mind, can refer only to themselves .

I can imagine a newborn or even on occasions a child or more rarely an adult being pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria and nothing else.

All affects and all cognitions pass away. Not only are cognitions patterns in the mind, they are also transient and plastic.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:09 pm
Advocate wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:39 pm Every "thing" is a pattern in a mind. It is a set of distinguishing attributes and boundary conditions. Some things have an external referent (instance) or correlate (class). They are purpose dependent and the resolution of the purpose determines the resolution of the pattern. #Ontology
Yes, but does the set of every "thing" include immediate affects such as pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria? It's easy to believe that these immediate affects have physical correlates but these sheer effects pertain only to the experiencing subject who has privileged access to them. Immediate effects, which have not been moderated by intellect or memory, i.e. mind, can refer only to themselves.

I can imagine a newborn or even on occasions a child or more rarely an adult being pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria and nothing else.

All affects and all cognitions pass away. Not only are cognitions patterns in the mind, they are also transient and plastic.
We are all reactionary creatures, receivers you might say, where the world is cause and our reactions to it is consciousness. Consciousness is not something an organism has or does not have; it is what an organism is. As to the topic heading, "Everything is not a thing." This is true, there are in essence no things, biological consciousness/read fully body consciousness in its reactive consciousness manifests objects out of its reactions to the energies of the cosmos or the physical world. Apparent reality is not accurate, it is a biological readout of what the body consciousness experiences not what is. According to modern physics what is really out there is energy; nothing but energy. It is this reactiveness that connects all the conditions of the natural world; the organic connection to the ever-changing world is called evolutionary development. Each condition reacting to the presence and reactions of all other conditions in its Un- totality is our apparent reality as opposed to what is termed ultimate reality, a place of no things, a place of energies. It's a dreamy moving not quiet thing and only the illusion as the object is the grasp of the ring. All conditions are reactive conditions, it is the chemistry of reality.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Belinda »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:05 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:09 pm
Advocate wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:39 pm Every "thing" is a pattern in a mind. It is a set of distinguishing attributes and boundary conditions. Some things have an external referent (instance) or correlate (class). They are purpose dependent and the resolution of the purpose determines the resolution of the pattern. #Ontology
Yes, but does the set of every "thing" include immediate affects such as pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria? It's easy to believe that these immediate affects have physical correlates but these sheer effects pertain only to the experiencing subject who has privileged access to them. Immediate effects, which have not been moderated by intellect or memory, i.e. mind, can refer only to themselves.

I can imagine a newborn or even on occasions a child or more rarely an adult being pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria and nothing else.

All affects and all cognitions pass away. Not only are cognitions patterns in the mind, they are also transient and plastic.
We are all reactionary creatures, receivers you might say, where the world is cause and our reactions to it is consciousness. Consciousness is not something an organism has or does not have; it is what an organism is. As to the topic heading, "Everything is not a thing." This is true, there are in essence no things, biological consciousness/read fully body consciousness in its reactive consciousness manifests objects out of its reactions to the energies of the cosmos or the physical world. Apparent reality is not accurate, it is a biological readout of what the body consciousness experiences not what is. According to modern physics what is really out there is energy; nothing but energy. It is this reactiveness that connects all the conditions of the natural world; the organic connection to the ever-changing world is called evolutionary development. Each condition reacting to the presence and reactions of all other conditions in its Un- totality is our apparent reality as opposed to what is termed ultimate reality, a place of no things, a place of energies. It's a dreamy moving not quiet thing and only the illusion as the object is the grasp of the ring. All conditions are reactive conditions, it is the chemistry of reality.
If I may paraphrase, reality is man-made. Things are no more or less than
what we conceive to be things.

I'd also include in the "we" other animals who ,while they probably don't abstract attributes from their concepts (for instance like I'm doing right now) nevertheless do have concepts.
popeye1945
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:24 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:05 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:09 pm

Yes, but does the set of every "thing" include immediate affects such as pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria? It's easy to believe that these immediate affects have physical correlates but these sheer effects pertain only to the experiencing subject who has privileged access to them. Immediate effects, which have not been moderated by intellect or memory, i.e. mind, can refer only to themselves.

I can imagine a newborn or even on occasions a child or more rarely an adult being pain, disgust, fear, or euphoria and nothing else.

All affects and all cognitions pass away. Not only are cognitions patterns in the mind, they are also transient and plastic.
We are all reactionary creatures, receivers you might say, where the world is cause and our reactions to it is consciousness. Consciousness is not something an organism has or does not have; it is what an organism is. As to the topic heading, "Everything is not a thing." This is true, there are in essence no things, biological consciousness/read fully body consciousness in its reactive consciousness manifests objects out of its reactions to the energies of the cosmos or the physical world. Apparent reality is not accurate, it is a biological readout of what the body consciousness experiences not what is. According to modern physics what is really out there is energy; nothing but energy. It is this reactiveness that connects all the conditions of the natural world; the organic connection to the ever-changing world is called evolutionary development. Each condition reacting to the presence and reactions of all other conditions in its Un- totality is our apparent reality as opposed to what is termed ultimate reality, a place of no things, a place of energies. It's a dreamy moving not quiet thing and only the illusion as the object is the grasp of the ring. All conditions are reactive conditions, it is the chemistry of reality.
If I may paraphrase, reality is man-made. Things are no more or less than
what we conceive to be things.

I'd also include in the "we" other animals who, while they probably don't abstract attributes from their concepts (for instance like I'm doing right now) nevertheless do have concepts.
Hi Belinda,
Yes, we are on the same page here. In the above post, that is the reason I used the term organism instead of individual to avoid confusion.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:22 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:44 pm

We only know of the biological because of the biological state which states what is biological and what is not. In other terms biology, as a classification, is made up from that which is part of its own classification. This is self-referential and self-referentiality results in an absence of comparison necessary for definition. Biology is a made-up classification.
I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
And yet the biology is composed of meaningless atoms thus making the atom aware given it is the foundation of consciousness.
You have full body consciousness as a multicellular organism, consciousness is not something an organism has or has not, consciousness is what an organism is, and just possibly; it goes all the way down to the most fundamental of particles.
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