Everything is Not a Thing

So what's really going on?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:02 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:25 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:03 pm
I agree with Popeye. No concept exists that does not apply to human experience.
Concept is awareness. The question is "what is awareness?" From an empirical perspective, not that things can be limited to the empirical, all consciousness is a result of atoms interacting and in these respects consciousness is founded upon the atom. This in turn necessitates consciousness as beyond the human experience given the interaction of atoms, as both the foundation of awareness and the foundation of everything else, is awareness.
Concept is the formation of a complex idea. No one I think is denying the complexity of our biological nature.
Complexity is the observation of relationships within relationships...all of which reflects back to the nature of the universe being complex. As such the universe may be defined as biological is biology, and all that results from it, is complexity.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
Thingness is distinction.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:40 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:22 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:11 pm

I think biology is a unique condition, the essence of which is singular, the term biology infers the opposite as being non-life-like or inanimate, the lock presuming its key. I tend to believe that there are no things only condition relative to one another, object being a biological reaction to outer condition/s.
And yet the biology is composed of meaningless atoms thus making the atom aware given it is the foundation of consciousness.
You have full body consciousness as a multicellular organism, consciousness is not something an organism has or has not, consciousness is what an organism is, and just possibly; it goes all the way down to the most fundamental of particles.
Then the universe is an organism. As to the rest, I agree with it.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:15 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
Thingness is distinction.
Perhaps just for thinking. The distinction is not out there.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:16 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:40 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:22 pm

And yet the biology is composed of meaningless atoms thus making the atom aware given it is the foundation of consciousness.
You have full body consciousness as a multicellular organism, consciousness is not something an organism has or has not, consciousness is what an organism is, and just possibly; it goes all the way down to the most fundamental of particles.
Then the universe is an organism. As to the rest, I agree with it.
Eodnhoj7,
Good to know someone's on the same page!!
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:15 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
Thingness is distinction.
Things are objects, manifestations of something basic like substance/matter or energies. If one is talking of life forms, the essence of all life forms is one and the same; differing only in structure and form. A physical object/read inanimate object, I suspect is of a like nature, like essence to all other inanimate objects with their essence being only somewhat different from the animate world. Ultimately all things are energy/energies.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:31 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:15 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
Thingness is distinction.
Things are objects, manifestations of something basic like substance/matter or energies. If one is talking of life forms, the essence of all life forms is one and the same; differing only in structure and form. A physical object/read inanimate object, I suspect is of a like nature, like essence to all other inanimate objects with their essence being only somewhat different from the animate world. Ultimately all things are energy/energies.
Then "energy" means everything and nothing.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:45 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:15 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:57 am
What things are distinct? I think we can agree that things like forests, humans, planets are not distinct. They interact with what is around them and also inside them and have fuzzy boundaries. But at the quantum level, pretty much every thing has these issues.
Thingness is distinction.
Perhaps just for thinking. The distinction is not out there.
And yet thoughts exist beyond thoughts. In these respects the distinction is "out there". On another note everything is a thought if the universe is self-aware. However this assertion requires us to define consciousness first.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:28 pm And yet thoughts exist beyond thoughts.
The end of the finger is beyond the beginning of the finger, but they are not distinct. We made up these things. Same with thoughts. Actually examine that which you are calling thoughts. See if you can find an outline, edges, beginnings and ends.
popeye1945
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:26 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:31 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:15 pm

Thingness is distinction.
Things are objects, manifestations of something basic like substance/matter or energies. If one is talking of life forms, the essence of all life forms is one and the same; differing only in structure and form. A physical object/read inanimate object, I suspect is of a like nature, like essence to all other inanimate objects with their essence being only somewhat different from the animate world. Ultimately all things are energy/energies.
Then "energy" means everything and nothing.
Eodnhoj7,

You right on the money, there are only objects/things for biological consciousness, these are biological readouts of the alterations made by the world's energies to a conscious subject's biology. The nature of apparent reality is the interaction of these energies with biological consciousness. This is a reactionary response to energies on the part of all life forms. To further underline this statement, modern physics states it is all energy; there is nothing else, as counterintuitive as this may sound to you, this is how it is. This statement concerning apparent reality is the holy grail, biology is the measure and meaning of all things, and energies are only things/objects in relation to biological consciousness.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Dontaskme »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
There is no thing that is not everything; therefore, everything is the no thing that it is not.

Everything cannot be absent of anything. Everything is the absolute; absent of anything.
Belinda
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:11 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
There is no thing that is not everything; therefore, everything is the no thing that it is not.

Everything cannot be absent of anything. Everything is the absolute; absent of anything.
That's true. if I may say it another way; there is no event that is not a necessary event . During the periods when we are waking and aware we differentiate between one event and another only because we must try to guess what is going to happen next, so we are ready to choose what to do.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:54 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:28 pm And yet thoughts exist beyond thoughts.
The end of the finger is beyond the beginning of the finger, but they are not distinct. We made up these things. Same with thoughts. Actually examine that which you are calling thoughts. See if you can find an outline, edges, beginnings and ends.
The "beginning" and "end" are both distinctions. The change of thoughts necessitates beginning and ends to these very same thoughts as one thought contrasts to another.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:30 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:26 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:31 am

Things are objects, manifestations of something basic like substance/matter or energies. If one is talking of life forms, the essence of all life forms is one and the same; differing only in structure and form. A physical object/read inanimate object, I suspect is of a like nature, like essence to all other inanimate objects with their essence being only somewhat different from the animate world. Ultimately all things are energy/energies.
Then "energy" means everything and nothing.
Eodnhoj7,

You right on the money, there are only objects/things for biological consciousness, these are biological readouts of the alterations made by the world's energies to a conscious subject's biology. The nature of apparent reality is the interaction of these energies with biological consciousness. This is a reactionary response to energies on the part of all life forms. To further underline this statement, modern physics states it is all energy; there is nothing else, as counterintuitive as this may sound to you, this is how it is. This statement concerning apparent reality is the holy grail, biology is the measure and meaning of all things, and energies are only things/objects in relation to biological consciousness.
Biology is energy.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Everything is Not a Thing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:11 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:31 pm Everything cannot be simplified to any one thing as thingness necessitates one thing being distinct to another thing in which case everything as a thing requires something beyond the everything thus everything is not everything.
There is no thing that is not everything; therefore, everything is the no thing that it is not.

Everything cannot be absent of anything. Everything is the absolute; absent of anything.
If 'everything' does not contain the phenomenon of 'absence' then it is not 'everything'. However if 'everything' does contain within it the phenomenon of 'absence' then it has an 'absence' and is not 'everything'. 'Everything' is a contradiction.
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