The Truth Contradiction

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:41 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:00 pm Given truth A is not the same as truth T it necessitates that truth is contradictory given both A and T are truths.
A: Apples are edible.
T: Oranges are a fruit.

These are both true assertions.
These assertions are not the same.

I must be missing something here.

I can't see any contradictions present.
A leads to B and to C. B and C are different yet both are grounded in the common quality known as A. The same thing results in differences.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:42 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:00 pm Given truth A is not the same as truth T it necessitates that truth is contradictory given both A and T are truths.
Depends on what truth A and truth T are actually declaring is true. Using language is not just following rules of grammar and spelling. The scribbles must refer to actual events or relations (married men vs bachelors), and if those events or relations contradict each other then we have a problem. I don't see a contradiction with what you have said because it leaves one wondering what truth A and truth T are about.
One truth results in many differing truths. The truth that it is snowing in 'A' and not snowing in 'B' necessitates 'snow' as having differing contrasting states. In other terms: one truth results in many differing contrasting truths.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:35 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:41 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:00 pm Given truth A is not the same as truth T it necessitates that truth is contradictory given both A and T are truths.
A: Apples are edible.
T: Oranges are a fruit.

These are both true assertions.
These assertions are not the same.

I must be missing something here.

I can't see any contradictions present.
A leads to B and to C. B and C are different yet both are grounded in the common quality known as A. The same thing results in differences.
Could you connect what you just wrote to what I wrote.
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:48 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:35 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:41 pm
A: Apples are edible.
T: Oranges are a fruit.

These are both true assertions.
These assertions are not the same.

I must be missing something here.

I can't see any contradictions present.
A leads to B and to C. B and C are different yet both are grounded in the common quality known as A. The same thing results in differences.
Could you connect what you just wrote to what I wrote.
A and T are both different. They contrast eachother as they say different things. One truth results in many contrasting truths. This contrast is contradiction. The apple and the orange contrast by there differences, they are not the same...this absence of sameness is contradiction. Yet both the apple and the orange are real and in these respects necessitates even differ things as having a same foundation (i.e. "realness" in this case).

The fact that two differing truths share the same quality of truth necessitates this quality of truth resulting in differences. These differences are contradictions. In shorter terms: Contradiction is difference.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:56 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:48 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:35 pm

A leads to B and to C. B and C are different yet both are grounded in the common quality known as A. The same thing results in differences.
Could you connect what you just wrote to what I wrote.
A and T are both different. They contrast eachother as they say different things. One truth results in many contrasting truths. This contrast is contradiction. The apple and the orange contrast by there differences, they are not the same...this absence of sameness is contradiction. Yet both the apple and the orange are real and in these respects necessitates even differ things as having a same foundation (i.e. "realness" in this case).

The fact that two differing truths share the same quality of truth necessitates this quality of truth resulting in differences. These differences are contradictions. In shorter terms: Contradiction is difference.
What is the contradiction, specifically with A and T?
A: Apples are edible.
T: Oranges are a fruit.
popeye1945
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:33 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:32 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:31 am

And yet different biologizes occur which contradict each other.
How do you mean? Differing biological organisms certainly live in somewhat different realities than our own. Alter your own biology with drugs and perceptions contradict the straight individual. Two truths about differing things do not contradict.
But are they different considering both are organisms? The continual reduction of different things to a same foundation causes a question of equivocation between "difference" and "sameness".
Living things are different in structure and form, not in essence, the difference in structure and form means differing sensory apparatus thus a differing apparent reality but all apparent reality is true to the biology that experiences it. This difference in structure and form I contend does not affect the sense of I of the given organism. I is essential for the survival of all organisms.
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Trajk Logik
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Trajk Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:38 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:42 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:00 pm Given truth A is not the same as truth T it necessitates that truth is contradictory given both A and T are truths.
Depends on what truth A and truth T are actually declaring is true. Using language is not just following rules of grammar and spelling. The scribbles must refer to actual events or relations (married men vs bachelors), and if those events or relations contradict each other then we have a problem. I don't see a contradiction with what you have said because it leaves one wondering what truth A and truth T are about.
One truth results in many differing truths. The truth that it is snowing in 'A' and not snowing in 'B' necessitates 'snow' as having differing contrasting states. In other terms: one truth results in many differing contrasting truths.
No, not "snowing" having contrasting states, but "is" and "is not" are contrasting states. The scribble "snowing" represents a type of weather condition. Whether it is or is not snowing is determined to be true by making an observation, like looking out the window, not by making more scribbles.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:55 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:56 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:48 pm

Could you connect what you just wrote to what I wrote.
A and T are both different. They contrast eachother as they say different things. One truth results in many contrasting truths. This contrast is contradiction. The apple and the orange contrast by there differences, they are not the same...this absence of sameness is contradiction. Yet both the apple and the orange are real and in these respects necessitates even differ things as having a same foundation (i.e. "realness" in this case).

The fact that two differing truths share the same quality of truth necessitates this quality of truth resulting in differences. These differences are contradictions. In shorter terms: Contradiction is difference.
What is the contradiction, specifically with A and T?
A: Apples are edible.
T: Oranges are a fruit.
The apple and orange contrast, they are different and not the other in many respects.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:49 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:33 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:32 am

How do you mean? Differing biological organisms certainly live in somewhat different realities than our own. Alter your own biology with drugs and perceptions contradict the straight individual. Two truths about differing things do not contradict.
But are they different considering both are organisms? The continual reduction of different things to a same foundation causes a question of equivocation between "difference" and "sameness".
Living things are different in structure and form, not in essence, the difference in structure and form means differing sensory apparatus thus a differing apparent reality but all apparent reality is true to the biology that experiences it. This difference in structure and form I contend does not affect the sense of I of the given organism. I is essential for the survival of all organisms.
The "I" as universal is the "I" without comparison thus is no-thingness. We know the "I" is universal, even though it is biological, in the respect that biological and the non-biological depend on each other for being....they are a false dichotomy.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:38 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:42 pm

Depends on what truth A and truth T are actually declaring is true. Using language is not just following rules of grammar and spelling. The scribbles must refer to actual events or relations (married men vs bachelors), and if those events or relations contradict each other then we have a problem. I don't see a contradiction with what you have said because it leaves one wondering what truth A and truth T are about.
One truth results in many differing truths. The truth that it is snowing in 'A' and not snowing in 'B' necessitates 'snow' as having differing contrasting states. In other terms: one truth results in many differing contrasting truths.
No, not "snowing" having contrasting states, but "is" and "is not" are contrasting states. The scribble "snowing" represents a type of weather condition. Whether it is or is not snowing is determined to be true by making an observation, like looking out the window, not by making more scribbles.
It is both 'snowing' and 'not-snowing' on planet earth, under a large enough context the contrasting opposites are one and nothing because of it.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Iwannaplato »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:31 pm
The apple and orange contrast, they are different and not the other in many respects.
That is not a contradiction. That is, as you say, contrast. Contraditions are where something is unture.

For example, your sentence above contains words that contrast with each other, but your sentence is not a contradiction...or?
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Trajk Logik
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Trajk Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:34 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:38 pm

One truth results in many differing truths. The truth that it is snowing in 'A' and not snowing in 'B' necessitates 'snow' as having differing contrasting states. In other terms: one truth results in many differing contrasting truths.
No, not "snowing" having contrasting states, but "is" and "is not" are contrasting states. The scribble "snowing" represents a type of weather condition. Whether it is or is not snowing is determined to be true by making an observation, like looking out the window, not by making more scribbles.
It is both 'snowing' and 'not-snowing' on planet earth, under a large enough context the contrasting opposites are one and nothing because of it.
How is, "It is both 'snowing' and 'not-snowing' on planet earth, " even a useful statement? It seems to me that you're not enlarging the context rather you're using the wrong context. It only snows or doesn't snow in certain places on Earth, not on the whole planet, UNLESS the Earth is in an Ice Age or runaway greenhouse effect. Again, context matters if you intend to say anything useful.

Just because you followed the rules of some language doesn't mean you've said anything useful or meaningful. The scribbles you write need to invoke a visual, auditory, etc. image in the readers mind. If it doesn't, like a contradiction, then you've effectively said nothing at all. You only put scribbles on the screen.
popeye1945
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:32 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:49 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:33 pm

But are they different considering both are organisms? The continual reduction of different things to a same foundation causes a question of equivocation between "difference" and "sameness".
Living things are different in structure and form, not in essence, the difference in structure and form means differing sensory apparatus thus a differing apparent reality but all apparent reality is true to the biology that experiences it. This difference in structure and form I contend does not affect the sense of I of the given organism. I is essential for the survival of all organisms.
The "I" as universal is the "I" without comparison thus is no-thingness. We know the "I" is universal, even though it is biological, in the respect that biological and the non-biological depend on each other for being....they are a false dichotomy.
Thingness is the object of the interdependence of subject and object. The subject being the way the world comes to know itself through itself. It is like you say, a false dichotomy in that there is no separation of subject and object, but as far as we know all knowing/all meaning is the property of the subject and as such, is capable of bestowing meaning upon a meaningless world.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:44 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:31 pm
The apple and orange contrast, they are different and not the other in many respects.
That is not a contradiction. That is, as you say, contrast. Contraditions are where something is unture.

For example, your sentence above contains words that contrast with each other, but your sentence is not a contradiction...or?
The absence of the truth of the orange found in the truth in the apple is not only a contrast but a contradiction. Contradiction is difference and difference is opposition as one thing stands as distinct from another.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Truth Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:59 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:34 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:31 pm

No, not "snowing" having contrasting states, but "is" and "is not" are contrasting states. The scribble "snowing" represents a type of weather condition. Whether it is or is not snowing is determined to be true by making an observation, like looking out the window, not by making more scribbles.
It is both 'snowing' and 'not-snowing' on planet earth, under a large enough context the contrasting opposites are one and nothing because of it.
How is, "It is both 'snowing' and 'not-snowing' on planet earth, " even a useful statement? It seems to me that you're not enlarging the context rather you're using the wrong context. It only snows or doesn't snow in certain places on Earth, not on the whole planet, UNLESS the Earth is in an Ice Age or runaway greenhouse effect. Again, context matters if you intend to say anything useful.

Just because you followed the rules of some language doesn't mean you've said anything useful or meaningful. The scribbles you write need to invoke a visual, auditory, etc. image in the readers mind. If it doesn't, like a contradiction, then you've effectively said nothing at all. You only put scribbles on the screen.
Under a large enough context contradictions occur, i.e. opposing things. "Planet earth" is a larger context.
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