"Experience, meaning and knowledge" is the object becoming part of the observer.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:23 pmBeing aware is to be conscious and indeed object is the fuel of the mind, but experience, meaning and knowledge are the property of the subject never the property of the object. After the said subject has gained experience, meaning and knowledge the subject is able to attribute said meanings onto an otherwise meaningless world? The apparent reality for the subject is a biological readout of its physical reactions to the outside world.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:21 pmIn being aware of the object the object becomes part of the subject. In being aware of the subject the subject becomes the object. Subject and object are one and the same and in these respects; the 'meaningless world of objects' is part of the observer.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:13 pm What do you make of the statement that the physical world is utterly meaningless in the absence of a conscious subject? Are meanings just lying around like apples fallen from a tree? You tell me how one comes to know the world and give me a few examples of meanings that are just laying around littering the place. It would help you to understand the relation between subject and object, that relation is your apparent reality. All experience knowledge and meanings belong only to the conscious subject never to the object or the physical world as object.
The Truth Contradiction
Re: The Truth Contradiction
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Re: The Truth Contradiction
Well then we have a universe with contradictions all over the place. Contradictions are commonplace, then.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:18 pmIn one respect yes, but in the other respect they stand in opposition to each other because of differences. In these respects it may be contradictory to even speak of contradiction given they necessitate the differences of sames.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:02 pmContrast sure. To me contrast does not entail contradiction. The pine tree next to the deciduous oak. I'd even go so far as to say they complement each other.
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Re: The Truth Contradiction
Well, yes, objects are fuel to the mind. That is why it is said that subject and object stand or fall together, take one away and the other ceases to be.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:21 pm"Experience, meaning and knowledge" is the object becoming part of the observer.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:23 pmBeing aware is to be conscious and indeed object is the fuel of the mind, but experience, meaning and knowledge are the property of the subject never the property of the object. After the said subject has gained experience, meaning and knowledge the subject is able to attribute said meanings onto an otherwise meaningless world? The apparent reality for the subject is a biological readout of its physical reactions to the outside world.
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Re: The Truth Contradiction
You've just spread the meaning of contradiction so thin to render it meaningless. Every distinction is not a contradiction. The fact that there are similarities in reality and not only distinctions is evidence that you are wrong. How could we ever categorize the world if there were only distinctions? There is also the idea that an entity can possess distinct properties that do not contradict. If Jane is a mother, wife, daughter and sister, how do these distinct roles contradict each other? How are they similar? What makes them relatable?Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:12 pmAnd yet language is a phenomenon found in the real world. Given everything that is distinct is connected to a language all distinctions are contradictory because of said contrast expressed in other posts. The fact that distinctions are made necessitates contradiction.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:04 pmContradictions only occur within narrow scopes of space-time. A married man cannot occupy the same phyisical, or mental, space-time as a bachelor. If we have two seperate men, one being married and the other a bachelor then there is no contradiction. So your snowing on Earth example is only a contradition if it were snowing and not snowing in the same area and the same time on Earth.
Contradictions stem from language. Did humans have or could they have thought of contradictions before language? Contradictions are just a misuse of language.
There is also a distiction in how words are used. I can say or write what I mean, or use sign language. How can I say the same thing using different methods of communication and not contradict myself if every distinction is a contradiction? Would using different languages to say the same thing be a contradiction? What would it mean to say the SAME thing using distinct languages if every distinction is a contradiction?
What makes a scribble a word and not just a scribble?
Re: The Truth Contradiction
If contradiction is universal then it means nothing. Under these terms my arguments are the equivalent of climbing a ladder to a higher place then throwing away the ladder as Wittgenstein put it.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:27 pmYou've just spread the meaning of contradiction so thin to render it meaningless. Every distinction is not a contradiction. The fact that there are similarities in reality and not only distinctions is evidence that you are wrong. How could we ever categorize the world if there were only distinctions? There is also the idea that an entity can possess distinct properties that do not contradict. If Jane is a mother, wife, daughter and sister, how do these distinct roles contradict each other? How are they similar? What makes them relatable?Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:12 pmAnd yet language is a phenomenon found in the real world. Given everything that is distinct is connected to a language all distinctions are contradictory because of said contrast expressed in other posts. The fact that distinctions are made necessitates contradiction.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:04 pm
Contradictions only occur within narrow scopes of space-time. A married man cannot occupy the same phyisical, or mental, space-time as a bachelor. If we have two seperate men, one being married and the other a bachelor then there is no contradiction. So your snowing on Earth example is only a contradition if it were snowing and not snowing in the same area and the same time on Earth.
Contradictions stem from language. Did humans have or could they have thought of contradictions before language? Contradictions are just a misuse of language.
There is also a distiction in how words are used. I can say or write what I mean, or use sign language. How can I say the same thing using different methods of communication and not contradict myself if every distinction is a contradiction? Would using different languages to say the same thing be a contradiction? What would it mean to say the SAME thing using distinct languages if every distinction is a contradiction?
What makes a scribble a word and not just a scribble?
- Trajk Logik
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Re: The Truth Contradiction
Witt? - meh.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:12 pmIf contradiction is universal then it means nothing. Under these terms my arguments are the equivalent of climbing a ladder to a higher place then throwing away the ladder as Wittgenstein put it.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:27 pmEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:12 pm
And yet language is a phenomenon found in the real world. Given everything that is distinct is connected to a language all distinctions are contradictory because of said contrast expressed in other posts. The fact that distinctions are made necessitates contradiction.
You've just spread the meaning of contradiction so thin to render it meaningless. Every distinction is not a contradiction. The fact that there are similarities in reality and not only distinctions is evidence that you are wrong. How could we ever categorize the world if there were only distinctions? There is also the idea that an entity can possess distinct properties that do not contradict. If Jane is a mother, wife, daughter and sister, how do these distinct roles contradict each other? How are they similar? What makes them relatable?
There is also a distiction in how words are used. I can say or write what I mean, or use sign language. How can I say the same thing using different methods of communication and not contradict myself if every distinction is a contradiction? Would using different languages to say the same thing be a contradiction? What would it mean to say the SAME thing using distinct languages if every distinction is a contradiction?
What makes a scribble a word and not just a scribble?
I prefer to say it's the equivalent of drawing meaningless scribbles on the screen. There's a difference between writing or saying something and drawing scribbles and making noises with your mouth. What do you think the nature of that difference is? Again, what makes some scribble a word and not just a scribble?
Re: The Truth Contradiction
The arguments start with rational premises and through continual analysis these premises become irrational. It is a reductio ad absurdum argument. From another perspective you can view the arguments like zen koans...ways to break away from fixed thinking.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:32 pmWitt? - meh.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:12 pmIf contradiction is universal then it means nothing. Under these terms my arguments are the equivalent of climbing a ladder to a higher place then throwing away the ladder as Wittgenstein put it.Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:27 pm
You've just spread the meaning of contradiction so thin to render it meaningless. Every distinction is not a contradiction. The fact that there are similarities in reality and not only distinctions is evidence that you are wrong. How could we ever categorize the world if there were only distinctions? There is also the idea that an entity can possess distinct properties that do not contradict. If Jane is a mother, wife, daughter and sister, how do these distinct roles contradict each other? How are they similar? What makes them relatable?
There is also a distiction in how words are used. I can say or write what I mean, or use sign language. How can I say the same thing using different methods of communication and not contradict myself if every distinction is a contradiction? Would using different languages to say the same thing be a contradiction? What would it mean to say the SAME thing using distinct languages if every distinction is a contradiction?
What makes a scribble a word and not just a scribble?
I prefer to say it's the equivalent of drawing meaningless scribbles on the screen. There's a difference between writing or saying something and drawing scribbles and making noises with your mouth. What do you think the nature of that difference is? Again, what makes some scribble a word and not just a scribble?