Self-Negation

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Eodnhoj7
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Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Self negation requires the negation of the I into a further I given the negation of the subject occurs through the subject; self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object. The subject occurring through the subject is an object, thus the subject and object are united. This occurs through self-reflection.
Walker
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by Walker »

“… self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object.”

Neti neti. I am not this, I am not that. I am nothing that I can imagine or perceive. Who am I?
CHNOPS
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by CHNOPS »

I cant say "I am not anything" because when I say "I" I am refering to something, so is like saying:

"I am something that is not something". This is a contradiction.

But some people understand this, beyond the limit of knowledge...
Dimebag
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by Dimebag »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:05 pm Self negation requires the negation of the I into a further I given the negation of the subject occurs through the subject; self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object. The subject occurring through the subject is an object, thus the subject and object are united. This occurs through self-reflection.
Can you expand on what you mean by “negation”? I know what I understand about what it means. Is negation something the “I” can “do”?

Furthermore, once the “I” becomes negated to the point that there is no possible object which could be made of the “I”, what happens to that “I”. You then have an object less, location less I, completely undefined and unknowable. Yet as that “I” that particular “I” knows very well they are that “I”. They have a completely subjective and objectless knowing ‘as’ “I”.

Would you call that knowing “being”? I would.

And then, as that objectless “I” once it has negated all objects of its former self, what relation does that I have to ALL objects? Is this negation an actual separation? Is it one of relative vs absolute, such that the I is the absolute, like the ocean, and the objects are the relative, like waves in that ocean of I?
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:54 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:05 pm Self negation requires the negation of the I into a further I given the negation of the subject occurs through the subject; self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object. The subject occurring through the subject is an object, thus the subject and object are united. This occurs through self-reflection.
Can you expand on what you mean by “negation”? I know what I understand about what it means. Is negation something the “I” can “do”?

Furthermore, once the “I” becomes negated to the point that there is no possible object which could be made of the “I”, what happens to that “I”. You then have an object less, location less I, completely undefined and unknowable. Yet as that “I” that particular “I” knows very well they are that “I”. They have a completely subjective and objectless knowing ‘as’ “I”.

Would you call that knowing “being”? I would.

And then, as that objectless “I” once it has negated all objects of its former self, what relation does that I have to ALL objects? Is this negation an actual separation? Is it one of relative vs absolute, such that the I is the absolute, like the ocean, and the objects are the relative, like waves in that ocean of I?
1. Negation is change.

2. The "I" being negated is the "I" changing.

3. The "I" changes into other forms thus in one respect the "I" no-longer exists but in another respect it is always present.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Walker wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:44 pm “… self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object.”

Neti neti. I am not this, I am not that. I am nothing that I can imagine or perceive. Who am I?
No-thing, as objects are a void of void thus to be an object is to be a contradiction and from this the "I" is anything.
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

CHNOPS wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:22 am I cant say "I am not anything" because when I say "I" I am refering to something, so is like saying:

"I am something that is not something". This is a contradiction.

But some people understand this, beyond the limit of knowledge...
Being is a contradiction.
Walker
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by Walker »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:26 pm
Walker wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:44 pm “… self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object.”

Neti neti. I am not this, I am not that. I am nothing that I can imagine or perceive. Who am I?
No-thing, as objects are a void of void thus to be an object is to be a contradiction and from this the "I" is anything.
Infinite potentiality fills void with all possibilities, and this voids the concept of void. Objects are manifestations of void, comprised of void.
Dimebag
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by Dimebag »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:24 pm
Dimebag wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:54 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:05 pm Self negation requires the negation of the I into a further I given the negation of the subject occurs through the subject; self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object. The subject occurring through the subject is an object, thus the subject and object are united. This occurs through self-reflection.
Can you expand on what you mean by “negation”? I know what I understand about what it means. Is negation something the “I” can “do”?

Furthermore, once the “I” becomes negated to the point that there is no possible object which could be made of the “I”, what happens to that “I”. You then have an object less, location less I, completely undefined and unknowable. Yet as that “I” that particular “I” knows very well they are that “I”. They have a completely subjective and objectless knowing ‘as’ “I”.

Would you call that knowing “being”? I would.

And then, as that objectless “I” once it has negated all objects of its former self, what relation does that I have to ALL objects? Is this negation an actual separation? Is it one of relative vs absolute, such that the I is the absolute, like the ocean, and the objects are the relative, like waves in that ocean of I?
1. Negation is change.

2. The "I" being negated is the "I" changing.

3. The "I" changes into other forms thus in one respect the "I" no-longer exists but in another respect it is always present.
What Happens when negation negates itself?

When there can be no more negation?

When there is no I separate to negate from anything else?

To negate is to believe one is separate from that which is negated. To believe one is separate from objects, is to believe one is an objectless subject. To believe one is an objectless subject is not find oneself. To not find oneself is to not know oneself. To not know oneself is to negate subject and object.

Negation is a self terminating process, terminating both the negating, and the idea of a separate self.
CHNOPS
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:11 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by CHNOPS »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:27 pm
CHNOPS wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:22 am I cant say "I am not anything" because when I say "I" I am refering to something, so is like saying:

"I am something that is not something". This is a contradiction.

But some people understand this, beyond the limit of knowledge...
Being is a contradiction.
Being or describing "Being" ? is different.

Being is not a contradiction. Is just being. Comparing or describing Being with "something else", that is when contradiction appears.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Walker wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:38 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:26 pm
Walker wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:44 pm “… self-negation is the formation of self-hood into an objective state where the I becomes an object.”

Neti neti. I am not this, I am not that. I am nothing that I can imagine or perceive. Who am I?
No-thing, as objects are a void of void thus to be an object is to be a contradiction and from this the "I" is anything.
Infinite potentiality fills void with all possibilities, and this voids the concept of void. Objects are manifestations of void, comprised of void.
Potentiality, by definition is an absence of the actual and as an absence of the actual, ie form, is void.
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:46 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:24 pm
Dimebag wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:54 am
Can you expand on what you mean by “negation”? I know what I understand about what it means. Is negation something the “I” can “do”?

Furthermore, once the “I” becomes negated to the point that there is no possible object which could be made of the “I”, what happens to that “I”. You then have an object less, location less I, completely undefined and unknowable. Yet as that “I” that particular “I” knows very well they are that “I”. They have a completely subjective and objectless knowing ‘as’ “I”.

Would you call that knowing “being”? I would.

And then, as that objectless “I” once it has negated all objects of its former self, what relation does that I have to ALL objects? Is this negation an actual separation? Is it one of relative vs absolute, such that the I is the absolute, like the ocean, and the objects are the relative, like waves in that ocean of I?
1. Negation is change.

2. The "I" being negated is the "I" changing.

3. The "I" changes into other forms thus in one respect the "I" no-longer exists but in another respect it is always present.
What Happens when negation negates itself?

When there can be no more negation?

When there is no I separate to negate from anything else?

To negate is to believe one is separate from that which is negated. To believe one is separate from objects, is to believe one is an objectless subject. To believe one is an objectless subject is not find oneself. To not find oneself is to not know oneself. To not know oneself is to negate subject and object.

Negation is a self terminating process, terminating both the negating, and the idea of a separate self.
1. Negation has to negate itself if negation is applied to all things.

2. Negation is never ending considering being is the negation of void, ie the negation of negation.

3. The "I" is the act of negation as the "I" can mean any and all things thus is void by nature.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

CHNOPS wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:27 pm
CHNOPS wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:22 am I cant say "I am not anything" because when I say "I" I am refering to something, so is like saying:

"I am something that is not something". This is a contradiction.

But some people understand this, beyond the limit of knowledge...
Being is a contradiction.
Being or describing "Being" ? is different.

Being is not a contradiction. Is just being. Comparing or describing Being with "something else", that is when contradiction appears.
Being is the void of void, ie the contradiction of void.
CHNOPS
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:11 am

Re: Self-Negation

Post by CHNOPS »

That is because you think "void" is something.

There is no such a thing as "void".

Being is not contradictory. The problem is you think "void" is part of reality.

The same with True/False.

There is only Trues.
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attofishpi
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Re: Self-Negation

Post by attofishpi »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:05 pm I AM AN ATTENTION SEEKING MORON WITH LITTLE TO OFFER BY WAY OF INTELLIGENCE
Ok. So please stop that.
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