Evolution and free will
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Re: Evolution and free will
Evaluation of fellow posters equals personal attack.
Re: Evolution and free will
Since 'free will' is NOT 'an illusion', WHY ask a question about whether it is or not?bahman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:21 pmYou didn't answer my question. I am not talking about free will but the feeling of having free will so again why should we have such a feeling if free will is an illusion?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:49 am The fact that all creatures are reactionary in nature is in direct opposition to the idea of free will. One can choose among choices how one will react to one's environment but one cannot not react, for even a considered inaction is a reaction to the environment. The environment is cause to all reactionary organisms, just as their reactions cause to the outer world and its fellows.
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- Posts: 2151
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Re: Evolution and free will
Because the illusion is the basis of belief, similar to beliefs in the supernatural. Since free will is non-existent how could it be dealt with otherwise?Age wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:58 amSince 'free will' is NOT 'an illusion', WHY ask a question about whether it is or not?bahman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:21 pmYou didn't answer my question. I am not talking about free will but the feeling of having free will so again why should we have such a feeling if free will is an illusion?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:49 am The fact that all creatures are reactionary in nature is in direct opposition to the idea of free will. One can choose among choices how one will react to one's environment but one cannot not react, for even a considered inaction is a reaction to the environment. The environment is cause to all reactionary organisms, just as their reactions cause to the outer world and its fellows.
Re: Evolution and free will
And, I recognize "chnops" as I used to be, years ago.
And, to provide AN EXAMPLE, which "chnops" will NOT do, is that I used to talk ABOUT "others", like "chnops" and "others" are doing here. Which is something that usually begins in little school, but which some people continue on with, all of their life.
Well, by the way you are responding, you OBVIOUSLY are NOT YET understanding.
And, AGAIN, the emphasis is NOT necessarily FOR 'you', posters, here. Are you, AT LEAST, able to understand this Fact?
Talk about one's 'ego' shining brightly here.CHNOPS wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:43 am And "bahman", I read him like if he is 15 years old.
I really want to have a conversation where at least one of us learn something new, but I lose interest inmediatly.
Is like if in order to start a real conversation, I must to first kill their ego's. I dont have time for that.
How about the ego under the label "chnops" is KILLED OFF, FIRST?
Maybe then 'you' will NOT, supposedly, lose interest SO QUICKLY.
WHY is that funny, to you?
How about you BEGIN to START LEARNING "chnops".
You CLAIM to BELIEVE that there is just ONE substance in the WHOLE Universe. Now, if you want 'me' or "another" to LEARN what this ONE substance ALONE IS, then just INFORM us. Or, is this just too HARD and too COMPLEX for you to do.
In other words, if you want to CLAIM some thing is true, then BACK UP and SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.
What is it that you think or BELIEVE the I does NOT YET KNOW? And then tell I what that IS, EXACTLY. THEN, we can ALL SEE and thus LEARN something new, which "chnops" BELIEVES 'it' KNOWS thee Truth of.
AGAIN, talk about the 'ego' AT WORK here.
If 'you' have A CLAIM, then back 'it' up and support 'it'. Otherwise the ONLY 'thing' talking here IS 'the ego'.
Can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE that if one makes A CLAIM, without YET having thee ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth to PRESENT, then that 'one' is JUST 'the ego' AT PLAY, and AT WORK?
Re: Evolution and free will
SO, according to this so-called "logic" of YOURS here, the BELIEF that there are words on a screen in front of a human being, is based on 'an illusion', correct?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:05 amBecause the illusion is the basis of belief,
If this is NOT correct, then what IS, EXACTLY?
If the word 'supernatural' means or refers to some 'thing', which is above, beyond, or NOT a part of the 'natural', then OBVIOUSLY that is a BELIE in just AN ILLUSION.
What does 'free will' even mean or refer to, to you?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:05 am Since free will is non-existent how could it be dealt with otherwise?
AND, if you just write and say that what 'free will' means or refers to is ANOTHER 'thing' that does NOT even exist, then just as OBVIOUS, and OF COURSE, 'that definition' of 'free will' IS of a NON-EXISTENT 'thing'.
So, we AWAIT YOUR DEFINITION here.
Re: Evolution and free will
Specialist jargons spare us from a lot of time and confusion. I learned some philosophical jargon from better philosophers than I.Age wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:25 amSo, if one USES the term 'free will' DIFFERENTLY than you do, then that USAGE is a MISUSE of the term, correct?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:17 am Belinda.
It is a misuse of the term, but then the term is nonsense anyway. As far as reflection goes this is common to all creatures, it is a matter of degree rather than of kind.
And, the way you USE the term 'free will' is the ONLY TRUE, RIGHT, and CORRECT way to USE 'that term', correct?
Oh, and be the way, besides THROUGH 'you', where else can one FIND the, maybe one and only, PROPER and ACCURATE way to USE 'terms'?
Re: Evolution and free will
What has this got to do with what I said and wrote.Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:27 amSpecialist jargons spare us from a lot of time and confusion. I learned some philosophical jargon from better philosophers than I.Age wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:25 amSo, if one USES the term 'free will' DIFFERENTLY than you do, then that USAGE is a MISUSE of the term, correct?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:17 am Belinda.
It is a misuse of the term, but then the term is nonsense anyway. As far as reflection goes this is common to all creatures, it is a matter of degree rather than of kind.
And, the way you USE the term 'free will' is the ONLY TRUE, RIGHT, and CORRECT way to USE 'that term', correct?
Oh, and be the way, besides THROUGH 'you', where else can one FIND the, maybe one and only, PROPER and ACCURATE way to USE 'terms'?
It does NOT matter how much jargon is specialized or not if and when people have and use DIFFERENT definitions.
In other words until 'you', human beings, agree upon and accept a specific definition for the 'term', or 'specialized jargon', 'free will', then 'you' WILL continue on with your complete and utter waste of time so-called 'philosophical discussions' about whether it is the case of 'free will' OR 'determinism'.
Re: Evolution and free will
If free will is an illusion then it cannot have a function.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:34 pmbahman,bahman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:21 pmYou didn't answer my question. I am not talking about free will but the feeling of having free will so again why should we have such a feeling if free will is an illusion?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:49 am The fact that all creatures are reactionary in nature is in direct opposition to the idea of free will. One can choose among choices how one will react to one's environment but one cannot not react, for even a considered inaction is a reaction to the environment. The environment is cause to all reactionary organisms, just as their reactions cause to the outer world and its fellows.
The illusion is what is responsible for the belief in free will, but like the belief in the self it is a highly functional illusion and that may be the reason for belief in both cases.
Re: Evolution and free will
Re: Evolution and free will
Re: Evolution and free will
What are you talking about?promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:23 pm Hoisting yourself up by your own boot straps are ya, bahman?
Re: Evolution and free will
Depending on how one defines 'free will' this makes all the difference IF 'free will' exists or not.bahman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:53 pmIf free will is an illusion then it cannot have a function.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:34 pmbahman,
The illusion is what is responsible for the belief in free will, but like the belief in the self it is a highly functional illusion and that may be the reason for belief in both cases.
Re: Evolution and free will
Re: Evolution and free will
Re: Evolution and free will
'you' CLAIMING that 'you' are an UNCAUSED cause.bahman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:59 pmWhat are you talking about?promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:23 pm Hoisting yourself up by your own boot straps are ya, bahman?