The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

So what's really going on?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:32 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:25 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:13 pm

Neither of your premises are remotely "acceptable".

So there is not paradox here.

1. In saying "everything" we summate to a "something".
2. In saying "something" we diverge to "everything".


Both BS
1. "Everything" applies as a thing considering it is a singular expression.
2. "Something" applies to all things considering it references a multiplicity.
I'd hate to be inside your head.
And you have one, lol?

If reality is beyond the senses, due to the paradoxical nature of the senses, then I have an absolute footing not dependent on anything doubtable.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:28 pm 1. In saying "everything" we summate to a "something".
2. In saying "something" we diverge to "everything".
In saying everything we summate as a whole.
In saying something we summate as plurality.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:54 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:28 pm 1. In saying "everything" we summate to a "something".
2. In saying "something" we diverge to "everything".
In saying everything we summate as a whole.
In saying something we summate as plurality.
1. Something is an individual thus a relative whole.
2. Everything is a relation of individuals thus relative parts.

Dually:

1. "Everything" is a 'summation' thus a "something" (as a 'summation' is something).
2. "Something" means anything thus "everything" (as 'anything' is everything).
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:35 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:54 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:28 pm 1. In saying "everything" we summate to a "something".
2. In saying "something" we diverge to "everything".
In saying everything we summate as a whole.
In saying something we summate as plurality.
1. Something is an individual thus a relative whole.
2. Everything is a relation of individuals thus relative parts.

Dually:

1. "Everything" is a 'summation' thus a "something" (as a 'summation' is something).
2. "Something" means anything thus "everything" (as 'anything' is everything).
Intriguing, systems theory? Everything is a system even the parts of a system's whole are wholes.
User avatar
Trajk Logik
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Trajk Logik »

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:38 pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
I think a thing could be defined as an object and/or conceivably substance, out of substance comes all.
User avatar
Trajk Logik
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Trajk Logik »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:51 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:38 pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
I think a thing could be defined as an object and/or conceivably substance, out of substance comes all.
I should ask what a "substance" is but I don't want to steer this too much off-topic. Many people refer to something physical or mental when referring to substances. Does this mean that there are physical things and mental things? Does "everything" refer to all physical and mental objects?

What is the difference between every cat and some cats? What about every dragon and some dragons?
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:23 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:51 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:38 pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
I think a thing could be defined as an object and/or conceivably substance, out of substance comes all.
I should ask what a "substance" is but I don't want to steer this too much off-topic. Many people refer to something physical or mental when referring to substances. Does this mean that there are physical things and mental things? Does "everything" refer to all physical and mental objects?
What is the difference between every cat and some cats? What about every dragon and some dragons?
I would say that substance is conditions before manifestation, including all elements of the periodic table or the energies that comprise them. If you wish a greater understanding of substance, I suggest reading Spinoza. There are no mental objects. There is the brain and its processes of representation which are subjective processes----winging it here. All means of representation meaning the cognitive processes are the energies of chemical substances or the energies that constitute them. "What is the difference between every and some." I believe it is the difference between an arrangement pattern. Every and some dragons would indicate a pattern was manifest.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:32 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:23 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:51 pm

I think a thing could be defined as an object and/or conceivably substance, out of substance comes all.
I should ask what a "substance" is but I don't want to steer this too much off-topic. Many people refer to something physical or mental when referring to substances. Does this mean that there are physical things and mental things? Does "everything" refer to all physical and mental objects?
What is the difference between every cat and some cats? What about every dragon and some dragons?
I would say that substance is conditions before manifestation, including all elements of the periodic table or the energies that comprise them. If you wish a greater understanding of substance, I suggest reading Spinoza. There are no mental objects. There is the brain and its processes of representation which are subjective processes----winging it here. All means of representation meaning the cognitive processes are the energies of chemical substances or the energies that constitute them. "What is the difference between every and some." I believe it is the difference between an arrangement and pattern. Every and some dragons would indicate a pattern was manifest.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:10 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:32 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:23 pm

I should ask what a "substance" is but I don't want to steer this too much off-topic. Many people refer to something physical or mental when referring to substances. Does this mean that there are physical things and mental things? Does "everything" refer to all physical and mental objects?
What is the difference between every cat and some cats? What about every dragon and some dragons?
I would say that substance is conditions before manifestation, including all elements of the periodic table or the energies that comprise them. If you wish a greater understanding of substance, I suggest reading Spinoza. There are no mental objects. There is the brain and its processes of representation which are subjective processes----winging it here. All means of representation meaning the cognitive processes are the energies of chemical substances or the energies that constitute them. "What is the difference between every and some." I believe it is the difference between an arrangement and pattern. Every dragon and some dragons would indicate a pattern was manifest, repetition of a particular arrangement.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:26 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:35 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:54 pm

In saying everything we summate as a whole.
In saying something we summate as plurality.
1. Something is an individual thus a relative whole.
2. Everything is a relation of individuals thus relative parts.

Dually:

1. "Everything" is a 'summation' thus a "something" (as a 'summation' is something).
2. "Something" means anything thus "everything" (as 'anything' is everything).
Intriguing, systems theory? Everything is a system even the parts of a system's whole are wholes.
Yep.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:38 pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
Or we can define "definition" and end in a non-sensical regressive looping.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:31 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:26 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:35 am

1. Something is an individual thus a relative whole.
2. Everything is a relation of individuals thus relative parts.

Dually:

1. "Everything" is a 'summation' thus a "something" (as a 'summation' is something).
2. "Something" means anything thus "everything" (as 'anything' is everything).
Intriguing, systems theory? Everything is a system, even the parts of a system's whole are wholes.
Yep.
Just a thought, seeing as there is no such thing as a closed system, as far as we know not even the universe, then nothing is whole according to this perspective or rather, we cannot perceive the whole.
User avatar
Trajk Logik
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Trajk Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:32 pm
Trajk Logik wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:38 pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but shouldn't we define, "thing", before trying to define [some]thing and [every]thing?
Or we can define "definition" and end in a non-sensical regressive looping.
I fail to see how defining words leads to a non-sensical regressive looping. If that were so then language use would have been abandoned long ago, like some bird species have abandoned flight because their wings are useless for such activity.

A definition is a type of representation where certain scribbles and utterances represent other things that are not necessarily just more scribbles or utterances.

What makes some scribble on this page a word and not just a scribble?
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Everything/Some Thing Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:02 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:31 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:26 am

Intriguing, systems theory? Everything is a system, even the parts of a system's whole are wholes.
Yep.
Just a thought, seeing as there is no such thing as a closed system, as far as we know not even the universe, then nothing is whole according to this perspective or rather, we cannot perceive the whole.
The whole is without comparison, other wise it would not be the whole. Without comparison it is fundamentally no-thing as thingness requires contrast. The open system requires something beyond it through which to move thus the open system is not the whole. Being encapsulates itself.
Post Reply