The Reflection Paradox

So what's really going on?

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Harbal
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Harbal »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:14 pm
Harbal wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:33 am The picture is only coloured markings on a flat surface. There might be a connection between your perception of the picture and a real waterfall, but that only exists in your mind. The picture itself has no more connection with a watherfall than the wall it is hanging on does.
The waterfall form replicates in both the picture and the actual waterfall, this replication of form is a connection.
What, exactly, do you mean by "connection"?

If someone looked at the picture, and it made them think of a particular waterfall, is that what you consider to be a connection?

What if someone looked at a picture of an imaginary waterfall, but it made them think of an actual waterfall that they were acquainted with? Would that picture have a connection the the real waterfall?
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Harbal wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:36 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:14 pm
Harbal wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:33 am The picture is only coloured markings on a flat surface. There might be a connection between your perception of the picture and a real waterfall, but that only exists in your mind. The picture itself has no more connection with a watherfall than the wall it is hanging on does.
The waterfall form replicates in both the picture and the actual waterfall, this replication of form is a connection.
What, exactly, do you mean by "connection"?

If someone looked at the picture, and it made them think of a particular waterfall, is that what you consider to be a connection?

What if someone looked at a picture of an imaginary waterfall, but it made them think of an actual waterfall that they were acquainted with? Would that picture have a connection the the real waterfall?
If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
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Harbal
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Harbal »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm

If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
They don't share an "underlying" form. They are about as different in form as you can get. And I still don't see what the nature of the supposed connection is.
Age
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Age »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:36 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:14 pm

The waterfall form replicates in both the picture and the actual waterfall, this replication of form is a connection.
What, exactly, do you mean by "connection"?

If someone looked at the picture, and it made them think of a particular waterfall, is that what you consider to be a connection?

What if someone looked at a picture of an imaginary waterfall, but it made them think of an actual waterfall that they were acquainted with? Would that picture have a connection the the real waterfall?
If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
I REALLY DO WISH 'you', posters, would just answer the questions posed to you.

That would SAVE so MUCH 'time' and 'energy', as well as STOPPING so MUCH back and forth discussing.

What "eodnhoj7" BELIEVES is true is that there is NO ACTUAL 'separation' ANYWHERE, and so what "eodnhoj7" spends a LOT of 'time' and 'energy' doing is LOOKING FOR and "finding" words that 'it' HOPES will back up, support, and 'justify' what 'it' currently BELIEVES is absolutely true.

In other words, "eodnhoj7" will SAY just about ANY thing in the hope that those words will work in 'justify' 'its' CLAIMS.

"eodnhoj", like MANY "others" here, WILL NOT just answer the questions posed to them Honestly and OPENLY because if they did, then they would CONTRADICT and REFUTE some of their PREVIOUSLY CLAIMS.
commonsense
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by commonsense »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
But a waterfall and a picture do not share their forms.

A painting, for example, is in the form of canvass, or maybe some other material, and maybe a frame made of carefully cut pieces of wood, and paint in various colors.

A waterfall is all wet and splashy, surrounded by rocks, on the side of a cliff.

If they shared the same form, the painting would be dripping onto the floor in the room where it’s been hung, or the waterfall would be made of carefully cut wood.
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Harbal wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:43 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm

If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
They don't share an "underlying" form. They are about as different in form as you can get. And I still don't see what the nature of the supposed connection is.
The picture of water falling shares, to a degree, the same falling form of an actual waterfall...it is a reflection. Because this degree of shared formed occurs there is a connection....the form repeats. A picture is a reflection and a reflection is the repetition of some degree of form.
Last edited by Eodnhoj7 on Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

commonsense wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:54 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
But a waterfall and a picture do not share their forms.

A painting, for example, is in the form of canvass, or maybe some other material, and maybe a frame made of carefully cut pieces of wood, and paint in various colors.

A waterfall is all wet and splashy, surrounded by rocks, on the side of a cliff.

If they shared the same form, the painting would be dripping onto the floor in the room where it’s been hung, or the waterfall would be made of carefully cut wood.
The same image of water falling repeats. Image is a degree of reality and as a degree is a form. Reflection is the repetition of degrees of form, these underlying degrees (which are shared) necessitate a connection.
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Age wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:15 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:36 pm

What, exactly, do you mean by "connection"?

If someone looked at the picture, and it made them think of a particular waterfall, is that what you consider to be a connection?

What if someone looked at a picture of an imaginary waterfall, but it made them think of an actual waterfall that they were acquainted with? Would that picture have a connection the the real waterfall?
If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
I REALLY DO WISH 'you', posters, would just answer the questions posed to you.

That would SAVE so MUCH 'time' and 'energy', as well as STOPPING so MUCH back and forth discussing.

What "eodnhoj7" BELIEVES is true is that there is NO ACTUAL 'separation' ANYWHERE, and so what "eodnhoj7" spends a LOT of 'time' and 'energy' doing is LOOKING FOR and "finding" words that 'it' HOPES will back up, support, and 'justify' what 'it' currently BELIEVES is absolutely true.

In other words, "eodnhoj7" will SAY just about ANY thing in the hope that those words will work in 'justify' 'its' CLAIMS.

"eodnhoj", like MANY "others" here, WILL NOT just answer the questions posed to them Honestly and OPENLY because if they did, then they would CONTRADICT and REFUTE some of their PREVIOUSLY CLAIMS.
And you contradict yourself again in the respect that you are stating what "we" should do when in reality it is just "you" who observes these things. In stating that your questions, which have been answered, will bring clarity to "us" you are stating a "we".
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Harbal
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Harbal »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:31 pm

The picture of water falling shares, to a degree, the same falling form of an actual waterfall...it is a reflection. Because this degree of shared formed occurs there is a connection....the form repeats. A picture is a reflection and a reflection is the repetition of some degree of form.
If a human being looks at a picture of a waterfall he will, in all likelihood, associate the image he perceives with an actual waterfall. If you want to call that a connection, so be it. But, beyond that, the thing that we call the picture and the thing that we call the waterfall have no relationship with each other.
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Harbal wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:52 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:31 pm

The picture of water falling shares, to a degree, the same falling form of an actual waterfall...it is a reflection. Because this degree of shared formed occurs there is a connection....the form repeats. A picture is a reflection and a reflection is the repetition of some degree of form.
If a human being looks at a picture of a waterfall he will, in all likelihood, associate the image he perceives with an actual waterfall. If you want to call that a connection, so be it. But, beyond that, the thing that we call the picture and the thing that we call the waterfall have no relationship with each other.
They are connected through the observer and only that which is observed exists. Form is consciousness as the nature of self-reflection, found in higher consciousness, is a loop form. This looping is universal, as repetition is universal, thus all is aware if form is consciousness.
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Harbal
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Harbal »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:57 pm
They are connected through the observer and only that which is observed exists. Form is consciousness as the nature of self-reflection, found in higher consciousness, is a loop form. This looping is universal, as repetition is universal, thus all is aware if form is consciousness.
Well I've told you what I think, and I have nothing more to add.
Age
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Age »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pm
Age wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:15 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 pm

If two distinct things share an underlying form then they are connected through that sharing of form.
I REALLY DO WISH 'you', posters, would just answer the questions posed to you.

That would SAVE so MUCH 'time' and 'energy', as well as STOPPING so MUCH back and forth discussing.

What "eodnhoj7" BELIEVES is true is that there is NO ACTUAL 'separation' ANYWHERE, and so what "eodnhoj7" spends a LOT of 'time' and 'energy' doing is LOOKING FOR and "finding" words that 'it' HOPES will back up, support, and 'justify' what 'it' currently BELIEVES is absolutely true.

In other words, "eodnhoj7" will SAY just about ANY thing in the hope that those words will work in 'justify' 'its' CLAIMS.

"eodnhoj", like MANY "others" here, WILL NOT just answer the questions posed to them Honestly and OPENLY because if they did, then they would CONTRADICT and REFUTE some of their PREVIOUSLY CLAIMS.
And you contradict yourself again in the respect that you are stating what "we" should do when in reality it is just "you" who observes these things.
But I NEVER stated ANY such 'thing'. And for 'you' to SEE that I did, is just MORE PROOF of how HOLDING ONTO BELIEFS BLINDS people to what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pmIn stating that your questions, which have been answered,
AGAIN, and as the "others" CLEARLY SAW, but which you OBVIOUSLY MISSED, I ALSO USED the 'Honestly and OPENLY' words. Which MEANS questions are NOT being answered Honestly and OPENLY ALL of the time.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pm will bring clarity to "us" you are stating a "we".
OF COURSE I am, and SO WHAT?

That IS what the 'we' word refers to.
Age
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Age »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:57 pm
Harbal wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:52 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:31 pm

The picture of water falling shares, to a degree, the same falling form of an actual waterfall...it is a reflection. Because this degree of shared formed occurs there is a connection....the form repeats. A picture is a reflection and a reflection is the repetition of some degree of form.
If a human being looks at a picture of a waterfall he will, in all likelihood, associate the image he perceives with an actual waterfall. If you want to call that a connection, so be it. But, beyond that, the thing that we call the picture and the thing that we call the waterfall have no relationship with each other.
They are connected through the observer and only that which is observed exists.
So, ALL the 'things' that are BEYOND human being observation do NOT exist, that is; according to 'your' so-called "logic" here right "eodnhoj7"?
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:57 pm Form is consciousness as the nature of self-reflection, found in higher consciousness, is a loop form. This looping is universal, as repetition is universal, thus all is aware if form is consciousness.
That is a big 'IF'.

See, to me, 'form' IS 'form' and NOT 'consciousness', because 'consciousness' IS 'consciousness' and NOT 'form', because 'form' IS 'form'.

HOWEVER, what the words 'consciousness' AND 'form' MEAN or REFER TO, EXACTLY, is a whole other matter.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Age wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:45 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pm
Age wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:15 am

I REALLY DO WISH 'you', posters, would just answer the questions posed to you.

That would SAVE so MUCH 'time' and 'energy', as well as STOPPING so MUCH back and forth discussing.

What "eodnhoj7" BELIEVES is true is that there is NO ACTUAL 'separation' ANYWHERE, and so what "eodnhoj7" spends a LOT of 'time' and 'energy' doing is LOOKING FOR and "finding" words that 'it' HOPES will back up, support, and 'justify' what 'it' currently BELIEVES is absolutely true.

In other words, "eodnhoj7" will SAY just about ANY thing in the hope that those words will work in 'justify' 'its' CLAIMS.

"eodnhoj", like MANY "others" here, WILL NOT just answer the questions posed to them Honestly and OPENLY because if they did, then they would CONTRADICT and REFUTE some of their PREVIOUSLY CLAIMS.
And you contradict yourself again in the respect that you are stating what "we" should do when in reality it is just "you" who observes these things.
But I NEVER stated ANY such 'thing'. And for 'you' to SEE that I did, is just MORE PROOF of how HOLDING ONTO BELIEFS BLINDS people to what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pmIn stating that your questions, which have been answered,
AGAIN, and as the "others" CLEARLY SAW, but which you OBVIOUSLY MISSED, I ALSO USED the 'Honestly and OPENLY' words. Which MEANS questions are NOT being answered Honestly and OPENLY ALL of the time.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:36 pm will bring clarity to "us" you are stating a "we".
OF COURSE I am, and SO WHAT?

That IS what the 'we' word refers to.
They are 'not answered' and 'not answer honestly and openly' is your observation.
Last edited by Eodnhoj7 on Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Reflection Paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Age wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:52 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:57 pm
Harbal wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:52 pm

If a human being looks at a picture of a waterfall he will, in all likelihood, associate the image he perceives with an actual waterfall. If you want to call that a connection, so be it. But, beyond that, the thing that we call the picture and the thing that we call the waterfall have no relationship with each other.
They are connected through the observer and only that which is observed exists.
So, ALL the 'things' that are BEYOND human being observation do NOT exist, that is; according to 'your' so-called "logic" here right "eodnhoj7"?
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:57 pm Form is consciousness as the nature of self-reflection, found in higher consciousness, is a loop form. This looping is universal, as repetition is universal, thus all is aware if form is consciousness.
That is a big 'IF'.

See, to me, 'form' IS 'form' and NOT 'consciousness', because 'consciousness' IS 'consciousness' and NOT 'form', because 'form' IS 'form'.

HOWEVER, what the words 'consciousness' AND 'form' MEAN or REFER TO, EXACTLY, is a whole other matter.
1. I never said "human being observation", I said "observer". If all is conscious, in the respect interaction is consciousness and all things have a degree of interaction, then the "observer" is not limited to human beings.

2. Form imprints itself on the consciousness and consciousness on the form thus a false dichotomy of consciousness and form occurs if one differentiates them.
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