Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

So what's really going on?

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Sculptor
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Sculptor »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:30 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:12 pm

Magic and myth a separate fields of study, though often overlap, of course. Specifically, myths often talk of magic, and conversely, magic often uses myth as a form of symbolism.

Dragons are usually interpreted as symbolising the spirals of energy in the earth.
Magic is a Myth.
The serious study of Myth is the realm of anthropology, and includes magic.
I wonder how many of those anthropologists who claim that magic is a myth have ever practiced it?
They have seen such practices all over the world.
Walker
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:23 pm Can you describe the pic, please?
Hi. If I may, it would be a pleasure to do so, for such kind folks.

The illustration communicates the process of understanding.
- First: experience an activity by performing and doing it. This is doing.
- Second: publicaly share your reactions and observations. This is reflecting.
- Third: process by analyzing the experience. This is reflecting.
- Fourth: Generalize the processing by connecting the experience to real-world examples. This is applying.
- Fifth: Practice by applying what was learned to a similar or different situation. This is applying.
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:00 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:30 pm

Magic is a Myth.
The serious study of Myth is the realm of anthropology, and includes magic.
I wonder how many of those anthropologists who claim that magic is a myth have ever practiced it?
They have seen such practices all over the world.
But actually practiced?
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Walker wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:23 pm Can you describe the pic, please?
Hi. If I may, it would be a pleasure to do so, for such kind folks.

The illustration communicates the process of understanding.
- First: experience an activity by performing and doing it. This is doing.
- Second: publicaly share your reactions and observations. This is reflecting.
- Third: process by analyzing the experience. This is reflecting.
- Fourth: Generalize the processing by connecting the experience to real-world examples. This is applying.
- Fifth: Practice by applying what was learned to a similar or different situation. This is applying.
Thank you.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:23 pm Can you describe the pic, please?
Well, Dewey came up with (surely, again) the idea that we learn by doing (and solving problems while doing). So he tended to focus on education as living, not as preparation for living. And it start with 1) experience. You actually participate in something, do something, rather than learn about it. After you have some experience, perhaps experiencing one facet of it then 2) you would talk or write about the experience with others.

Let's take dowsing. You meet in a field. You probably get some basic instructions, and just start giving it a shot. Now you experience it. Do the rods move at all? Are their changes? Do they seem to point to certain things? Then the group gathers and discusses what happened. Perhaps there were problems. Perhaps the leader or othres have practical suggestions. Now actually at this point I probably wouldn't do 3) I'd send people back out in the field. More experience. 3 might come later, at home. So, later after the day you would perhaps write about what you experienced. That's in a formal setting. For something like dowsing, I might suggest just mulling. You might mull about your disbelief. You might mull about feeling self-conscious in the field. YOu might realize that you have trouble relaxing your hands and you want to succeed to much. You might mull over something the leader said that was a kind of mental tip: 'Don't choose, just see what happens.' (I am making this up, I don't know how to lead a dowsing group). Number 4) perhaps has more to do with academic subjects. You could generalize issues you learned/mulled about yourself to other types of things you have learned. Perhaps there are patterns in how you learn, judge yourself. But with academic subjects problem solving approaches you have learned or tools for analysis could be applied to specific issues. Like in your archaeology training, there were probably a variety of ways of dating objects. You might think about a different dig you were and in light of some new approach to dating or carefully investigating physically a dig, you now think through how you could have done it on a previous dig. And then you go to new experiences.

Sorry I combined two types of learning situations. But that's in part because dowsing is an extremely intuitive skill. Which means that much of the conscious, verbal aspects of learning are less likely to occur.

The main thing is a movement starting from experiencing/doing to reflecting on that experience, to making adjustments and to applying what you have learned or think you should try to the next experience.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

double post
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

double post
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:32 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:23 pm Can you describe the pic, please?
Well, Dewey came up with (surely, again) the idea that we learn by doing (and solving problems while doing). So he tended to focus on education as living, not as preparation for living. And it start with 1) experience. You actually participate in something, do something, rather than learn about it. After you have some experience, perhaps experiencing one facet of it then 2) you would talk or write about the experience with others.

Let's take dowsing. You meet in a field. You probably get some basic instructions, and just start giving it a shot. Now you experience it. Do the rods move at all? Are their changes? Do they seem to point to certain things? Then the group gathers and discusses what happened. Perhaps there were problems. Perhaps the leader or othres have practical suggestions. Now actually at this point I probably wouldn't do 3) I'd send people back out in the field. More experience. 3 might come later, at home. So, later after the day you would perhaps write about what you experienced. That's in a formal setting. For something like dowsing, I might suggest just mulling. You might mull about your disbelief. You might mull about feeling self-conscious in the field. YOu might realize that you have trouble relaxing your hands and you want to succeed to much. You might mull over something the leader said that was a kind of mental tip: 'Don't choose, just see what happens.' (I am making this up, I don't know how to lead a dowsing group). Number 4) perhaps has more to do with academic subjects. You could generalize issues you learned/mulled about yourself to other types of things you have learned. Perhaps there are patterns in how you learn, judge yourself. But with academic subjects problem solving approaches you have learned or tools for analysis could be applied to specific issues. Like in your archaeology training, there were probably a variety of ways of dating objects. You might think about a different dig you were and in light of some new approach to dating or carefully investigating physically a dig, you now think through how you could have done it on a previous dig. And then you go to new experiences.

Sorry I combined two types of learning situations. But that's in part because dowsing is an extremely intuitive skill. Which means that much of the conscious, verbal aspects of learning are less likely to occur.

The main thing is a movement starting from experiencing/doing to reflecting on that experience, to making adjustments and to applying what you have learned or think you should try to the next experience.
I always try and question everything, like with the dowsing. And then afterwards I try and repeat the experience, to learn more about it. I found, for example, that for me, I prefer to work with a pendulum.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:54 pm I always try and question everything, like with the dowsing. And then afterwards I try and repeat the experience, to learn more about it. I found, for example, that for me, I prefer to work with a pendulum.
Yes, repeating, trying, adjusting, solving, reflecting, trying again, trying again in a slightly different way....new problems, new skill levels, new solutions, more adjusting.
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:04 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:54 pm I always try and question everything, like with the dowsing. And then afterwards I try and repeat the experience, to learn more about it. I found, for example, that for me, I prefer to work with a pendulum.
Yes, repeating, trying, adjusting, solving, reflecting, trying again, trying again in a slightly different way....new problems, new skill levels, new solutions, more adjusting.
Good advice for anything, really.
Walker
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:16 pm
Walker wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:23 pm Can you describe the pic, please?
Hi. If I may, it would be a pleasure to do so, for such kind folks.

The illustration communicates the process of understanding.
- First: experience an activity by performing and doing it. This is doing.
- Second: publicaly share your reactions and observations. This is reflecting.
- Third: process by analyzing the experience. This is reflecting.
- Fourth: Generalize the processing by connecting the experience to real-world examples. This is applying.
- Fifth: Practice by applying what was learned to a similar or different situation. This is applying.
Thank you.
- You’re welcome. The descriptive words are all taken from the illustration. I omitted no words that are in diagram, and I think added few words to none, that were my own.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:54 pm

I always try and question everything,example,
Clearly not very deeply...
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iambiguous
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by iambiguous »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:16 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:54 pm

I always try and question everything...
Clearly not very deeply...
I've had a number of discussions with Maia about nature over at ILP. And I always start with the assumption that in many important respects, her personal experiences with nature and my personal experiences with it were, no doubt, very, very different. So we can only communicate our reaction to it up to a point.

Her experiences have also enabled her to believe she has a spiritual connection to and a spiritual relationship with nature that my own experiences simply have not provided me with. I don't feel spiritually connected to nature at all.

Instead, what I have come to focus on is how nature itself, while "blessing" some of the people some of the time, can also make life a living hell for others. Just ask the folks in parts of Florida these days. Or the folks who have suffered a great loss as a result of the covid pandemic. Hurricanes and viruses are nature in a nutshell.

Thus, for me, nature and our reaction to it is just another manifestation of dasein. We all have experienced it -- subjectively, intersubjectively -- as individuals from what can be very, very different and conflicted points of view.

So, in my view, in regard to things like dowsing, as with things like morality and politics and religion, there is what we experience. The experiences prompting us to believe this or that. But then the extent to which we can demonstrate to others why we believe that rational [and for some, virtuous] men and women ought to believe it too. Suggesting ways in which they might experience the same things that we do.
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Here's a simple experiment that anyone can do at home. Ask a friend or partner to hide a coin under a rug. Take a pendant, or anything you can use as a pendulum, and hold it over the rug, keeping it as still as possible. Walk slowly up and down. When the pendulum makes a sudden, unexpected movement, such as jerking, or starting spinning, you'll be over the coin.
Walker
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

iambiguous wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:44 pm Instead, what I have come to focus on is how nature itself, while "blessing" some of the people some of the time, can also make life a living hell for others. Just ask the folks in parts of Florida these days. Or the folks who have suffered a great loss as a result of the covid pandemic. Hurricanes and viruses are nature in a nutshell.
Have you read Eric Hoffer's thoughts about nature? If not, you would enjoy them.
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