Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

So what's really going on?

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iambiguous
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by iambiguous »

Walker wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:27 am
iambiguous wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:44 pm Instead, what I have come to focus on is how nature itself, while "blessing" some of the people some of the time, can also make life a living hell for others. Just ask the folks in parts of Florida these days. Or the folks who have suffered a great loss as a result of the covid pandemic. Hurricanes and viruses are nature in a nutshell.
Have you read Eric Hoffer's thoughts about nature? If not, you would enjoy them.
Wow! How to explain this...

I contribute to a thread here -- viewtopic.php?f=20&t=28015&start=900 -- revolving around quotes. I bring the "great minds" I quote over on my ILP thread here.

I rotate through ten authors. Most of the quotes come from the Goodreads book site. And, as I run out of quotes from one, I add another.

Well, the next one on my list is Eric Hoffer.

Doesn't have much to do with magic and electro-magnetism, I suspect, but it shows how "spooky" things -- coincidences -- can pop up in your life and get you to supposing all sorts of things.

In fact, I recall many years ago I was watching a TV program that featured James Randi exposing what he construed to be skilled magicians passing themselves off as the "real deal". I believe one of them was Uri Gellar. Geller addresses the audience. He asked viewers to go through their house. He told them that they would find something truly out of the ordinary. Something that always worked but now did not. Something that never worked but now did. So, my daughter and I go from room to room. Nothing. But while in the bathroom there was suddenly an explosion of flashing lights outside the house. Fire engines and ambulances and cop cars. And that had never happened in all the years we lived there.

It turned out a house had caught on fire and nearly burned to the ground.

Does that count, Mr. Gellar?

There are just weird things happening in the world. And, after all, the very existence of existence itself is nothing short of mind-boggling. It's not just how to explain it, but how to even go about explaining it.

Only from my frame of mind, those such as Pagans tend to focus on Nature only when it is bountiful and aesthetically beautiful. Mother Nature. The emphasis, for example, on Native Americans and Aboriginals and their own "spiritual" attachment "to the land".

Going all the way back to those communities who practiced animal and human sacrifices in order to please or to appease the Gods of Nature.

But: the main reason they did that was because nature could also be brutally savage.

From my frame of mind, this "spiritual" component revolves more around a psychological defense mechanism. Being able to ground your "soul" in something you are able to anchor I to. Something that reconfigures the individual as an "utterly tiny and insignificant speck of existence" in the staggering vastness of all there is given the brute facticity of an essentially meaningless and purposeless existence into "somehow" being "at one" with the universe.

Or with God. Or with the Goddess.

Unless of course I'm wrong.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

iambiguous wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:09 pm Only from my frame of mind, those such as Pagans tend to focus on Nature only when it is bountiful and aesthetically beautiful. Mother Nature. The emphasis, for example, on Native Americans and Aboriginals and their own "spiritual" attachment "to the land".

Going all the way back to those communities who practiced animal and human sacrifices in order to please or to appease the Gods of Nature.

But: the main reason they did that was because nature could also be brutally savage.

From my frame of mind, this "spiritual" component revolves more around a psychological defense mechanism. Being able to ground your "soul" in something you are able to anchor I to. Something that reconfigures the individual as an "utterly tiny and insignificant speck of existence" in the staggering vastness of all there is given the brute facticity of an essentially meaningless and purposeless existence into "somehow" being "at one" with the universe.
There are so many pagan and indigenous relations to nature and most I've run across defnitely understood that nature is dangerous also. But we did evolve in nature. I know, hardly an insight. But what I mean is, it should feel right in ways that an asphalt street and stone and metal buildings and plastic and other items and cars and their sounds and exhaust and all the EM radiation will not. One can take this into all sorts of spiritualies, but I recognize that my body feels more at home when there is less of these things around me. This doesn't mean I want civilization to fall, but I recognize that my body, which in fact is very much like the bodies that had as their niche what we would now call wilderness, belongs in some way in what we call nature these days.

To say that those such as Pagans focus on nature only when it is bountiful and beautiful gives me the sense that you haven't met many pagans IRL but are going on the few that show up in forums like this one, and perhaps even then not getting the complexity of their relations to and understanding of nature.

In any case that's not my experience of people who identify as pagans. Nor most of the people who actually spend large amounts of time in nature and have nature based spiritualities, whether indigenous or refound paganisms by 'Westerners'.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

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It all sounds like so-called 'wiccanism' with its silly rituals and 'pseudoancient' 'spirituality'. I've known a few of those people. All phonies of course.
'Ancient' wiccanism is actually a modern invention.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:46 pm It all sounds like so-called 'wiccanism' with its silly rituals and 'pseudoancient' 'spirituality'. I've known a few of those people. All phonies of course.
'Ancient' wiccanism is actually a modern invention.
What does that initial 'It all' refer to?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:46 pm It all sounds like so-called 'wiccanism' with its silly rituals and 'pseudoancient' 'spirituality'. I've known a few of those people. All phonies of course.
'Ancient' wiccanism is actually a modern invention.
What does that initial 'It all' refer to?
The general 'electromagnetic energy' that the thread-maker is emitting :)
Maia
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:46 pm It all sounds like so-called 'wiccanism' with its silly rituals and 'pseudoancient' 'spirituality'. I've known a few of those people. All phonies of course.
'Ancient' wiccanism is actually a modern invention.
I'm fully aware of that. I used to be in a Wiccan group but later realised it wasn't for me. I'm not really interested in that sort of ritual.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:14 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:46 pm It all sounds like so-called 'wiccanism' with its silly rituals and 'pseudoancient' 'spirituality'. I've known a few of those people. All phonies of course.
'Ancient' wiccanism is actually a modern invention.
What does that initial 'It all' refer to?
The general 'electromagnetic energy' that the thread-maker is emitting :)
Wicca has very little to do with the subject of this thread.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

iambiguous wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Wow! How to explain this...

Well, the next one on my list is Eric Hoffer.
Interesting. Even though you have no proof of that, I’ll take you at your word and as such, I have some thoughts pertaining to that actual event, which shall go unspoken.

Hoffer did physical work, his early life is a bit mysterious. His relationship with nature was adversarial, which is interesting because he had a deep understanding of the way things are. He leaned towards paving paradise.

We can experience the great outdoors with only the surroundings and the stars touching our senses, and we do this while nature watches us … and schemes how to eat us up. Nature has time on its side, but we have technology, so we can experience a sort of relationship with nature that will end when we return to civilization inside the walls. What’s more, awareness that the nature experience will eventually end in civilization where we can relax attention away from the hostile forces of nature, flavours the nature experience itself, and distorts it.

There is a great spirituality in experiencing nature, but it’s not the kind most folks care to experience. To be close to nature is to be closer to death, to survive that requires sobriety. It’s the spirituality of sobriety, made real by outwitting death in nature. In nature that requires much attention including vigilance, including the dualistic activity of thought, planning, adaptation, and even invention, all which attunes one to what's going on, all of which is actually what folks should be referencing with the saying, “chopping wood and hauling water.”
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:43 am
iambiguous wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Wow! How to explain this...

Well, the next one on my list is Eric Hoffer.
Interesting. Even though you have no proof of that, I’ll take you at your word and as such, I have some thoughts pertaining to that actual event, which shall go unspoken.

Hoffer did physical work, his early life is a bit mysterious. His relationship with nature was adversarial, which is interesting because he had a deep understanding of the way things are. He leaned towards paving paradise.

We can experience the great outdoors with only the surroundings and the stars touching our senses, and we do this while nature watches us … and schemes how to eat us up. Nature has time on its side, but we have technology, so we can experience a sort of relationship with nature that will end when we return to civilization inside the walls. What’s more, awareness that the nature experience will eventually end in civilization where we can relax attention away from the hostile forces of nature, flavours the nature experience itself, and distorts it.

There is a great spirituality in experiencing nature, but it’s not the kind most folks care to experience. To be close to nature is to be closer to death, to survive that requires sobriety. It’s the spirituality of sobriety, made real by outwitting death in nature. In nature that requires much attention including vigilance, including the dualistic activity of thought, planning, adaptation, and even invention, all which attunes one to what's going on, all of which is actually what folks should be referencing with the saying, “chopping wood and hauling water.”
That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 am That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. His daily life of work was within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:09 am
Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 am That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. He worked and lived within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
As a migrant farm worker perhaps he also experienced the effects of intensive farming for profit.

Climate change is another very good example of human hubris. Namely, the idea that we, as humans, can actually influence the earth's climate. Climate change is both real, and natural, in my opinion.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:09 am
Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 am That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. His daily life of work was within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
When I think of Hoffer I Hoffer I think of The True Believer. It's been a long time since I read that but I don't remember much about nature. What work did he go into his thoughts about that?
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:16 am
Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:09 am
Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 am That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. He worked and lived within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
As a migrant farm worker perhaps he also experienced the effects of intensive farming for profit.

Climate change is another very good example of human hubris. Namely, the idea that we, as humans, can actually influence the earth's climate. Climate change is both real, and natural, in my opinion.
So you believe in magic, but not climate change (which is, in fact, being caused by humans). No surprises there.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Maia »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:38 pm
Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:16 am
Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:09 am
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. He worked and lived within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
As a migrant farm worker perhaps he also experienced the effects of intensive farming for profit.

Climate change is another very good example of human hubris. Namely, the idea that we, as humans, can actually influence the earth's climate. Climate change is both real, and natural, in my opinion.
So you believe in magic, but not climate change (which is, in fact, being caused by humans). No surprises there.
Simply stating it doesn't make it true.

It is well known to archaeologists that climate has changed many times, and was much warmer in Neolithic times than it is now, for example.
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Re: Is magic related to electro-magnetism?

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 am
Walker wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:09 am
Maia wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 am That sounds like a pretty depressing sort of attitude. It's possible to have civilisation without fighting nature, by living according to its cycles and rhythms. Ultimately nature will win, anyway, so this is the sensible thing to do.
Hi Maia. Hoffer was a migrant farm worker harvesting produce. He also worked as a laborer on the shipping docks in San Francisco. His daily life of work was within the elements of nature. Direct experience.

Adversarial need not be a fight. Adversarial can be, in the case of Hoffer, a mitigation, which is the way of civilization.

After all, why fight the climate by trying to change it? Adapt. Mitigate. Wear a hat in the hot sun.
When I think of Hoffer I Hoffer I think of The True Believer. It's been a long time since I read that but I don't remember much about nature. What work did he go into his thoughts about that?
Beats me. My Hoffer books were paperbacks from the sixties and they crumbled long ago.

I remember he also mused about the mild anxiety he felt while traveling to the next picking job, because he was going to pick something he had never picked before. I think it was green beans. He related that to his thoughts about nature, if that rings a bell.
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