Something that can be created can also be destroyed

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bahman
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Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
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Angelo Cannata
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Angelo Cannata »

It’s all wrong: you already assumed that it can be destroyed, so what’s the point of showing it as a conclusion?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
Some-thing can be known...not created. When some-thing is known, this some-thing has to already exist in the exact same instance of knowing.

Knowing cannot be created...only the known is created, in the exact same instance of knowing, that cannot be created.

Only the known is created, and the created known..knows nothing of it's creation. Knower and known are one in the exact same instance of knowing...always this NOW

How can WHAT is always this immediate NOW be created bahman?

There is nothing making this immediate NOW happen...nor is there anything making this immediate NOW not-happen.

There's just this NOW


.
Dimebag
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Dimebag »

bahman wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
Is something that is created, emergent? At least weakly?
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Angelo Cannata wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:59 pm It’s all wrong: you already assumed that it can be destroyed, so what’s the point of showing it as a conclusion?
I just assumed that the process of destruction is B. I have to show that B is possible.
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:24 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
Some-thing can be known...not created. When some-thing is known, this some-thing has to already exist in the exact same instance of knowing.

Knowing cannot be created...only the known is created, in the exact same instance of knowing, that cannot be created.

Only the known is created, and the created known..knows nothing of it's creation. Knower and known are one in the exact same instance of knowing...always this NOW

How can WHAT is always this immediate NOW be created bahman?

There is nothing making this immediate NOW happen...nor is there anything making this immediate NOW not-happen.

There's just this NOW
Particles and antiparticles are created and destroyed at any moment.
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:14 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
Is something that is created, emergent? At least weakly?
The emergence is a completely different thing from the creation. Creation is related to making something out of nothing. In emergence, we have something new out of something, a system with many parts for example.
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Sculptor
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Sculptor »

Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed.
Things come into being and end through transformation.
There is no exception to this rule.
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:48 pm Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed.
Things come into being and end through transformation.
There is no exception to this rule.
No, particle and antiparticle pop up into existence and then disappear.
Dimebag
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Dimebag »

bahman wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:43 pm
Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:14 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm Let's assume that something can be created (this is a process and let's call it A). Let's assume that something can be destroyed (this is a process and let's call it B). B can happen because of A. Why? Because the reverse process of A is also a possible process and this process is B.
Is something that is created, emergent? At least weakly?
The emergence is a completely different thing from the creation. Creation is related to making something out of nothing. In emergence, we have something new out of something, a system with many parts for example.
I disagree, something can also be created from parts. But I agree that something forming from nothing is nonsensical. Everything has a cause. However, we also need to import the understanding that coarser things can form from finer things. And if we break down matter, it becomes so “fine” as to appear to not really be there. So our understanding of what is something, and what is nothing, might be a little blurry.
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:21 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:43 pm
Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:14 am
Is something that is created, emergent? At least weakly?
The emergence is a completely different thing from the creation. Creation is related to making something out of nothing. In emergence, we have something new out of something, a system with many parts for example.
I disagree, something can also be created from parts.
You disagree with what? These are terms used by experts.
Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:21 pm But I agree that something forming from nothing is nonsensical.
That is not true. Nothing to something is possible. I have a thread on this here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35077
Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:21 pm Everything has a cause.
That is not true. Particles and antiparticles pop into existence at any instant without any cause and then they get destroyed.
Dimebag wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:21 pm However, we also need to import the understanding that coarser things can form from finer things. And if we break down matter, it becomes so “fine” as to appear to not really be there. So our understanding of what is something, and what is nothing, might be a little blurry.
Nothing is the absence of anything, the opposite of something.
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Sculptor
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:13 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:48 pm Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed.
Things come into being and end through transformation.
There is no exception to this rule.
No, particle and antiparticle pop up into existence and then disappear.
Prove it!
Impenitent
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Impenitent »

if there is no observer...

-Imp
Walker
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:24 am There's just this NOW
There's also that then.
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bahman
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Re: Something that can be created can also be destroyed

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:24 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:13 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:48 pm Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed.
Things come into being and end through transformation.
There is no exception to this rule.
No, particle and antiparticle pop up into existence and then disappear.
Prove it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation
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