Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:56 amRene cheated. He knew his mathematics went against the church's teachings and he knew what the church did to Galileo. A simple variation on Anselm and viola!
-Imp
I'm not sure it's that simple. I'm just riffing from memory, but someone (mighta been Bernard Williams) made a reasonable case for some alternative hypothesis. Galileo being Italian was more intimately involved with the Vatican than Frenchman Descartes who had allied himself with the protestant north anyway. I think he was serving pretty much as a mercenary for the Dutch (or some German state) when he had the episode with the heater he attributed his cogito insight to. On top of that, he was the first modern philosopher to write in the vernacular, rather than the Latin of Catholicism, and his books were published in Holland. It may be that he simply didn't think anyone would read his work if God appeared to be excluded; Descartes' essence was an intellect rather than a soul after all. It is also conceivable that he thought the ontological argument isn't the complete nonsense it so clearly is.
it might not be that simple, (I can't read Rene's mind,) I was simply placing him in the historical context... besides, if he really wanted to doubt all things - including himself, he could have...
uwot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:19 am
Is there anything a god could do to prove it exists?
This question is easy to answer.
Because a question can only arise if there is an answer. If there were no answer then there would be no question.
The only reason questions keep on appearing is because we do not want knowledge to come to an end. So the answers to every question must already exist. The question you are asking, posing to yourself, and putting it to others, is born out of the answer you already have.
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:56 amRene cheated.
I'm not sure it's that simple.
it might not be that simple, (I can't read Rene's mind,)
Well, enough to call him a cheat.
Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:56 amI was simply placing him in the historical context... besides, if he really wanted to doubt all things - including himself, he could have...
He was pretty thorough, but you are right, various people, starting with Malebranche have pointed out that if you turn the scepticism up to 11, all that is definitely certain is the experience that exists at any moment.
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:24 amGod PROVES God exists, but ONLY to those who are Truly Honest and OPEN, and who seriously Want to CHANGE for the better.
Age, if God changed you for the better, it proves he is evil for creating the worse original. What were you? A tapeworm?
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:24 amGod PROVES God exists, but ONLY to those who are Truly Honest and OPEN, and who seriously Want to CHANGE for the better.
Age, if God changed you for the better, it proves he is evil for creating the worse original.
What were you? A tapeworm?
But God does NOT change ANY one of 'you', adult human beings. ONLY 'you' have CONTROL over 'you'.
Thinking God changes 'you' is just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of Wrong PRESUMPTIONS leading one completely and utterly ASTRAY.
Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:45 pmBut God does NOT change ANY one of 'you', adult human beings. ONLY 'you' have CONTROL over 'you'.
Fuck me. So you are you out of choice?
Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:45 pmThinking God changes 'you' is just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of Wrong PRESUMPTIONS leading one completely and utterly ASTRAY.
And that is just another example of your dreary meaningless blathering,
Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:45 pmThinking God changes 'you' is just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of Wrong PRESUMPTIONS leading one completely and utterly ASTRAY.
And that is just another example of your dreary meaningless blathering,
Is this ALL you have here.
Thinking or ASSUMING God changes 'you' is like thinking or ASSUMING that God is a "he", like you do here.
BOTH WILL just lead one completely and utterly ASTRAY.
Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:41 amAnd the mouse said to the lion, Jump!
Did you hear that whoosh, Wanker? That was the sound of the point going over your head.
Hey God, jump up and do some tricks for me, and make sure you follow these rules.
Hey, why don't you leave him alone...he's hungover from Father's Day - Jesus only went and bought him a 2 litre bottle of scotch whisky (cos it was on sale)
Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:33 amHey God, jump up and do some tricks for me, and make sure you follow these rules.
Yes Wanker, I get your point. The point I am making is that even if a god were to perform some tricks, there is nothing it could do that human creativity or madness could not attribute to another cause.
