Even God couldn't prove he exists.

So what's really going on?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by Dontaskme »

uwot wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:52 am
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:03 am
uwot wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:17 pm...what is the smell of purple?
That's an easy answer: The smell of purple is purple.
Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
Here, Knowledge is what gives you the experience of reality. If there was no knowledge here, is there any other way of experiencing reality? You are ASKING the question. The question goes with the answer. So there is no need to ask questions and there is no need to answer.

Asking questions is a demand for knowledge. If there is no knowledge here, there would be no need to ask the question.

The answers are born out of the question. You cannot have any questions when what you have is the answers.
Walker
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by Walker »

uwot wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:26 am
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:33 amHey God, jump up and do some tricks for me, and make sure you follow these rules.
Yes Walker, I get your point. The point I am making is that even if a god were to perform some tricks, there is nothing it could do that human creativity or madness could not attribute to another cause.
Obviously, you need a point sharpener to shape up that dull observation. Your search begins now.

Attribution of a cause does not define the cause, although any particular attribution will correlate to cause due to the natural law of Six Degrees from Kevin Bacon.

This is because any particular action or phenomenon, once it occurs, has been caused by all causes in the past and the present. In other words, any thing is caused by all things, however distant the link-of-cause in the chain of causation. However, any particular element can rise in prominence at any moment, and if man but had the Godlike capacity to account for every element present in a condition as it relates to every other element in that condition in constant flux of elemental combinations, then the inevitable interplay of these elements would be the future, apprehended in the present, which is how the three times compress into one.

Man clumsily attempts this by assigning a significance to each element, based on learned knowledge of each element. That’s a good start, much as Lincoln Logs were a start for titanium structures, however it does not account for every combination of relationship. This is simply because not every element present can be detected, and because the significance of each particular element is in a constant flux to shifting to account for, however when frozen in time, results in separating the situation from the flux which becomes a static analysis combined with fantasy of what reality should be … which by the way, describes the dynamic process employed for the climate-model predictions of the computer gamers. Add to this what we all know, that the separation caused by observation removes the crucial flux that determines the inevitable future, at any particular moment.

How does this relate to the mouse demanding proof of the lion’s existence, from the lion? Well, the lion could eat the mouse at any point while the mouse was managing to squeak his demands and protests in his last moments, but what would that prove? Such a process is merely the way of nature, which btw some folks say is proof enough, but that’s beside the point. Lions usually don’t go chasing mice because of the net energy loss, and since the life-force in lions is not entropic and in fact counters entropy, and since lions are not led by delusion, it’s simply not worth the effort.

The point is, proof is always taken as the last link in the chain of causation, the link that is recognizably closest to the moment in question, (keeping in mind that “recognizable” is determined by bias), a moment which becomes nothing more than an abstract concept favouring bias since selective observation has removed it from the flux, a process as was previously mentioned.

For example, the lion asks the lion, what’s the proof that you were hungry? And the lion answers, because I ate the mouse. That is proof enough for the lion even though it is the last link in his reasoning capacity that allows him only a glimpse of the totality of mind because he can’t eat the elephant that’s larger than he … a last link that is linked to all the causes leading up to his hunger, including the pain of his mother’s birthing and even further back in the chain.

Which leads us to the real point of the here and now linked to the context.

To sharpen up this simple, dull point into some shape of relevance, Youwhat must now summon both Decartian scientific powers with the truth of being that causes thought to répondez s'il vous plaît with something more than “huh,” and “nein,” to titillate free-range philosophers with possibilities from the clue-ish like elements perceived in combinations both overt and covert, both explicit and implicit.

And now, I must climb a high ladder to repair the chimney, if I still have the strength to lift the thing. Wish me your sincere good luck, and should I survive* it will be by God’s grace as I meet the demands of duality.


* rooted in the animism of: the edge of balance and examination of delusion.
uwot
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:31 pm...any particular action or phenomenon, once it occurs, has been caused by all causes in the past and the present.
You clearly don't understand quantum mechanics.
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:31 pm...if man but had the Godlike capacity to account for every element present in a condition as it relates to every other element in that condition in constant flux of elemental combinations, then the inevitable interplay of these elements would be the future, apprehended in the present, which is how the three times compress into one.
Or chaos.
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:31 pmTo sharpen up this simple, dull point into some shape of relevance, Youwhat must now summon both Decartian scientific powers with the truth of being that causes thought to répondez s'il vous plaît with something more than “huh,” and “nein,” to titillate free-range philosophers with possibilities from the clue-ish like elements perceived in combinations both overt and covert, both explicit and implicit.
I have made many references to Descartes' dull point; sometimes laconically, sometimes at length. For free range philosophers interested in western philosophy, you have to understand the point that Descartes was making, because you will not understand western philosophy if you can't. And I mean all of western philosophy, because just as Descartes is considered the father of modern philosophy, Parmenides was considered by Plato to be the father of Greek philosophy. What Descartes and Parmenides have in common is that they attempted to establish facts about reality based on a single undeniable axiom. For Parmenides that axiom was 'Being is'. The Cartesian 'I think, therefore I am' is better known, but slightly less solid because as people since Malebranche pointed out, you cannot prove from experience that there is an experiencer. What makes them so undeniable is that if they cannot be said without being true. 'God exists' might not be true, and there is nothing a god could do to prove that it is more than an experience.
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:31 pmAnd now, I must climb a high ladder to repair the chimney, if I still have the strength to lift the thing. Wish me your sincere good luck...
Certainly: Good luck.
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:31 pm...and should I survive it will be by God’s grace as I meet the demands of duality.
In which case it's not down to luck.
uwot
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by uwot »

I tried opening your link Wanker, but as it was taking so long to open, I thought there might be something dodgy and looked up the source. It's that Takimag again. Now, I don't know if Takimag is subject to censorship in Europe because "It received criticism in 2013 after it published articles in support of the Greek neo-Nazi political party Golden Dawn" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taki%27s_Magazine Or perhaps because at one time "its managing editor" op.cit was this charmer:
"Richard Bertrand Spencer (born May 1978) is an American neo-Nazi, antisemitic conspiracy theorist, and white supremacist. A former editor, he is a public speaker and activist on behalf of the alt-right movement. He advocates for the reconstitution of the European Union into a White racial empire, which he believes will replace the diverse European ethnic identities with one homogeneous "White identity"" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer
Whatever the reason, I can't access your fable, so if you think it will persuade anyone outside the US, you will have to tell it yourself. I imagine it's along the lines of an old joke:
A lion was feeling a bit cocky one day. As he walked through the jungle, he came by a tiger. 'Oi tiger', said the lion, 'Who's the king of the jungle?' The tiger cowered and replied, 'You oh lion, you are the king of the jungle.' 'That's right.' said the lion 'And don't you forget it.' The lion went on his way and shortly came by a gorilla. 'Oi gorilla', said the lion, 'Who's the king of the jungle?' The gorilla cowered and replied, 'You oh lion, you are the king of the jungle.' 'That's right.' said the lion 'And don't you forget it.' The lion went on his way and shortly came by an elephant. 'Oi elephant', said the lion, 'Who's the king of the jungle?' With his trunk, the elephant grabbed the lion's tail, swung the lion round his head and smashed him into a tree. 'You don't have to get upset because you don't know the answer' said the lion.
Anyway Wanker, I suspect you still miss the point. I am not challenging any god to show itself; as an atheist I don't believe such a being exists. My point is the same as Descartes': If there were a god, there is nothing it could do that could not be attributed to your head being fucked. It's just because it is that you can't understand that.
bobmax
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by bobmax »

Being is true Being itself.

Being = Truth

If we mean Being by God, then God = Truth.
The essence of Truth is that it cannot be denied.
Truth is negation of negation.

Existence is founded on separation, that is, it consists in a negation.
Because what is separate is such only insofar as it negates all the rest.

So that God (Truth) does not exist.
Because God is.

While we exist, but we are not.
Walker
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by Walker »

uwot wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:43 am I tried opening your link Walker ...
Your point is noted. Repetition doesn't improve it.

The following quote is from the beginning of the link that you couldn't open:
By David Cole
June 21, 2022:

Remember the Dhaliwal brothers?

No?

Good. Like yesterday’s bowel movement, they don’t deserve remembering, let alone an encore.
That said, I’m gonna reluctantly invoke them, because even the worst of mankind can offer lessons for the rest of us.

Christmas Day 2007, brothers Kulbir (23) and Amritpal (19) Dhaliwal, their friend Carlos Sousa (17) in tow, crept into the San Francisco Zoo after closing time to taunt the animals. Drunk and stoned, the threesome decided to take on Tatiana, the zoo’s endangered Siberian tiger. Standing on the railing of the enclosure, pelting the animal with pine cones, the bud-bud-buddies were shocked when the enraged cat leaped a hell of a lot farther and higher than zoo officials thought possible when they built the pen. Jumping the length of her moat, the cat set upon the three unwise men. Carlos Sousa became carne asada, and the panicked Punjabis ran screaming. Police were forced to shoot the beautiful animal to save two worthless members of a herd that could’ve used some thinning.

The Dhaliwals sued the city for their self-inflicted injuries, and because it’s San Francisco, the city gave them $900,000. Since the Dhaliwals were brown, many leftists coddled them as victims. And as coddled brown folks often do, the Dhaliwals, now armed with a sense of entitlement, embarked on a crime spree, with Amritpal excelling in grand theft, assault, DUI, and reckless driving, before dying in 2012 (hopefully he was reincarnated as a Bombay sidewalk, to spend a lifetime being shat upon).

The story’s lesson? Don’t provoke a tiger. If you do, you’re likely to get mauled.
The article continues by identifying modern-day tigers in society, amongst other provocative points.

Proof enough ...
uwot
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Re: Even God couldn't prove he exists.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:27 am
uwot wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:43 am I tried opening your link Walker ...
Your point is noted. Repetition doesn't improve it.
I disagree Wanker. Frankly though, you are making my case for me by citing an article that can describe any human beings as "two worthless members of a herd that could’ve used some thinning."
Walker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:27 amProof enough ...
Ah, we're back on topic. No Wanker, that is not proof in the sense that Parmenides and Descartes demanded.
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