Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:20 pm
Why are you telling me about some people here who believe in God who think she will burn in hell? Who cares what some here believe? Do YOU believe she'll burn in hell? I don't. And if you don't, and I don't, then why in the world would it be relevant to tell me that some here believe that.
Some here believe all sorts of nonsense, so what?
So, we have an extreme version of 'holding someone responsible' in a universe where there is a hell, also.
But it would be good, I think, to come down to our more societal level responses to people who commit acts we don't like.
If a kid is a bully in a determined world we....
If the same kid is a bully in a free will world....
How should a school respond and parents respond? What is the difference?
If an adult steals from a cash register in a litte store in a city what is the difference if we know determinism is the case and if we know free will is the case?
Often in our world, we do to varying degrees take into account the background of the people. If the bully kid is beaten at home the school and the parents (the non-beating parent) may react differently. If the robber in the second example is poor or has some huge medical bill to pay, or was raped repeatedly in foster care, this might affect the way people and the judge may view the person in sentencing. One's political views may affect how much background matters. From 'not at all, you are completley responsible for the bad choice you made' to varying degrees of the background mitigating punishment or replacing punishment with rehab or with interventions in the bully kid's family by social services and no punishment for the child.
We're a bit fuzzy about all this as a species.
If we knew with certainty that everything is determined, would we still think of the background as a factor in meting out punishment or instead of punishment whatever measures we take? Since, it could be argued the bully with lovely parents and 7 non-violent siblings, is still utterly determined to be a bully so why should he be punished more than that person with a negative dramatic background? Or why should he undergo more unpleasant measures if we no longer think in terms of punishment?
I agree in that I don't think bemoaning the beliefs of Christians gets us anywhere.
How does it affect the way we view people and deal with them here, on the ground, in society and perhaps socially?
What differences would it make in our attitudes towards these people and what differences in the measures we think should be taken would KNOWING lead to?