epistemology is

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Advocate
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epistemology is

Post by Advocate »

Epistemology is the metaphysics of actionable certainty.
Skepdick
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Skepdick »

Epistemology is the theory of knowledge.

A good epistemic theory is supposed to answer questions about the self:

What is knowledge?
How do I acquire knowledge?
Why do I acquire knowledge?
How do I revise knowledge?
How do I use knowledge?
How do I know that I know?
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attofishpi
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

..and how does empiricism fit into this?
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:24 pm ..and how does empiricism fit into this?
It's one theory. Of many.

How do you know which theory of knowledge is the "right" one?

Ain't that a pickle!
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:27 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:24 pm ..and how does empiricism fit into this?
It's one theory. Of many.
..mmm ok, but it's all we got right? (and that includes any measure we make with any particular tool\instruments of scientific measure) yes?
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:31 pm ..mmm ok, but it's all we got right? (and that includes any measure we make with any particular tool\instruments of scientific measure) yes?
It is all we got. Still. Nobody knows what it means to "measure" in quantum physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:32 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:31 pm ..mmm ok, but it's all we got right? (and that includes any measure we make with any particular tool\instruments of scientific measure) yes?
It is all we got. Still. Nobody knows what it means to "measure" in quantum physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
Ok. I hate it (sometimes) when you chuck links in! sometimes.
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=493739 time=1612176264 user_id=17350]
Epistemology is the theory of knowledge.

A good epistemic theory is supposed to answer questions about the self:

What is knowledge?
How do I acquire knowledge?
Why do I acquire knowledge?
How do I revise knowledge?
How do I use knowledge?
How do I know that I know?
[/quote]

Calling it Theory of Knowledge lets it be just about anything. It's clearly more specific than that. Do you have an actual refutation? In what sense is epistemology Not the metaphysics of certainty? In what way is understanding it as the metaphysics of certainty not sufficient for all epistemological tasks? All the questions you pose above are compatible with my own definition as well as your own. Are you seeking to refute or bolster my point?

a) Knowledge is justified belief. It cannot be justified True belief because the ultimate truth of a proposition is what knowledge is a pointer toward, and ultimately unknowable. A word must have a useful meaning and tying it to future hypothetical verification makes it a guess rather than a level of certainty.

b) Through experience. That experience may be of direct relations of entities in reality or it may be by experiencing the attributes of expertise in others and then trusting their judgement further on subjects you have no direct knowledge of. Ultimately all versions of knowledge amount to replication. If the same thing keeps happening from the same input, all else being equal, that's something you can be most certain of.

c) Your intent is not a universal problem with a universal solution, but the answer (framework of understanding) but in generic terms, all knowledge is put to the task of changing the world. In what way is a contingent question.

d) Bayes Theorum (the non-mathematical version) is a good expression of how that works. Whether people understand the value of evidence and how to update their prior effectively are again contingent.

e) That's empirical - psychology and neuroscience.

f) By understanding the process (d), the relative value of evidence (below), and the purpose to which it must be sufficient.

bonus:
universal taxonomy - evidence by certainty
0 known ignorance (certainty that you don't know)
1 found anecdote (assumed motive)
2 adversarial anecdote (presumes inaccurate communication motive)
3 collaborative anecdote (presumes accurate communication motive)
4 experience of (possible illusion or delusion)
5 ground truth (consensus Reality)
6 occupational reality (verified pragmatism)
7 professional consensus (context specific expertise, "best practice")
8 science (rigorous replication)
<- empirical probability / logical necessity ->
9 math, logic, Spiritual Math (semantic, absolute)
10 experience qua experience (you are definitely sensing this)
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:34 pm Ok. I hate it (sometimes) when you chuck links in! sometimes.
I hate writing out what has already been written.
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Advocate »

[quote=attofishpi post_id=493770 time=1612193066 user_id=6293]
..and how does empiricism fit into this?
[/quote]

The most verifiable certainty you can get is to experience something yourself, whether or not it's measurable. Whether it replicates or is interpreted properly are different topics.
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attofishpi
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

Advocate wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:37 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:24 pm ..and how does empiricism fit into this?
The most verifiable certainty you can get is to experience something yourself, whether or not it's measurable. Whether it replicates or is interpreted properly are different topics.
Ya, point in fact is that empirical evidence by definition does NOT rely on such a 'thing' of experience being VERIFIABLE. ..and I respect that fact.
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=493774 time=1612193561 user_id=17350]
[quote=attofishpi post_id=493773 time=1612193465 user_id=6293]
..mmm ok, but it's all we got right? (and that includes any measure we make with any particular tool\instruments of scientific measure) yes?
[/quote]
It is all we got. Still. Nobody knows what it means to "measure" in quantum physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
[/quote]

Everything they're talking about there is ignorance, not knowledge - how and how much they don't know. Knowing how little you don't know is an answer - a framework for understanding. It can never be a solution (action plan). Quantum physics is literally the cutting edge of our knowledge and to believe we should have any degree of actionable certainty there is absurd.
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Re: epistemology is

Post by Advocate »

[quote=attofishpi post_id=493782 time=1612193991 user_id=6293]
[quote=Advocate post_id=493780 time=1612193853 user_id=15238]
[quote=attofishpi post_id=493770 time=1612193066 user_id=6293]
..and how does empiricism fit into this?
[/quote]

The most verifiable certainty you can get is to experience something yourself, whether or not it's measurable. Whether it replicates or is interpreted properly are different topics.
[/quote]

Ya, point in fact is that empirical evidence by definition does NOT rely on such a 'thing' of experience being VERIFIABLE. ..and I respect that fact.
[/quote]

Replication is verification, the lowest possible level that can even potentially lead to certainty. Math, logic, and science All rest on replication.
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

Advocate wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:40 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:32 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:31 pm ..mmm ok, but it's all we got right? (and that includes any measure we make with any particular tool\instruments of scientific measure) yes?
It is all we got. Still. Nobody knows what it means to "measure" in quantum physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
Everything they're talking about there is ignorance, not knowledge - how and how much they don't know. Knowing how little you don't know is an answer - a framework for understanding. It can never be a solution (action plan). Quantum physics is literally the cutting edge of our knowledge and to believe we should have any degree of actionable certainty there is absurd.
..you are contradicting yourself - if it is ignorance on the one hand - then next you are stating it is KNOWLEDGE
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attofishpi
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Re: epistemology is

Post by attofishpi »

Advocate wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:42 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:39 pm
Advocate wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:37 pm The most verifiable certainty you can get is to experience something yourself, whether or not it's measurable. Whether it replicates or is interpreted properly are different topics.
Ya, point in fact is that empirical evidence by definition does NOT rely on such a 'thing' of experience being VERIFIABLE. ..and I respect that fact.
Replication is verification, the lowest possible level that can even potentially lead to certainty. Math, logic, and science All rest on replication.
that was not my point
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