Things cannot be simultaneous

So what's really going on?

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 am
Add all your googolplex together. You get the whole which cannot be like this and that.
Did you forget what you were talking about?

In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
So you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.
I don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.
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bahman
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by bahman »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 am
Did you forget what you were talking about?

In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
So you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.
I don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.
This and that are different states of affair.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 am
Did you forget what you were talking about?

In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
So you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.
I don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.
But I'm sorry, because we speak different languages, I first didn't understand your point. The universe as a whole can only be in one configuration at a time, while everything is ever changing, there is a "sequence" to that change, yes! :lol:
AlexW
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by AlexW »

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:54 am You are talking about what do you perceive?
Yes.
Don't you think its actually a good idea to base ones interpretations of the "nature of reality/the universe" on what is actually directly perceived?
If you don't ever perceive separate particles/things, why build a theory on it?
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bahman
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by bahman »

AlexW wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:04 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:54 am You are talking about what do you perceive?
Yes.
Don't you think its actually a good idea to base ones interpretations of the "nature of reality/the universe" on what is actually directly perceived?
If you don't ever perceive separate particles/things, why build a theory on it?
You basically and mainly perceive photons, gravitons, etc.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:12 am
AlexW wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:04 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:54 am You are talking about what do you perceive?
Yes.
Don't you think its actually a good idea to base ones interpretations of the "nature of reality/the universe" on what is actually directly perceived?
If you don't ever perceive separate particles/things, why build a theory on it?
You basically and mainly perceive photons, gravitons, etc.
Don't forget molecules, of gases and solids.
Dimebag
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Dimebag »

I have a feeling that what bahman is getting at by saying a system cannot be in two different states at once, is, as an example, my cat can’t be both alive and dead at the same time. Or, my computer can’t be both on and off at the same time. Basically, superposition.

We know superposition is possible in the quantum realm, however, as far as we know, it’s not possible in the macro scale.

If that’s the case, I would tend to agree, IN GENERAL that a system which has individual discrete states which are exclusive, cannot be in more than one state at one time.

Now, that’s not really saying anything amazing, really kind of stating the obvious, but, hey, if it keeps us busy here then why not.
Skepdick
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:49 pm You're saying that illuminating the power light and the signal or information or whatever you want to call it going to the monitor are the same thing?
He is saying that everything is information.

It's the view of physical information / digital physics / digital philosophy.
Skepdick
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Skepdick »

Dimebag wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:10 pm We know superposition is possible in the quantum realm
We don't actually know that. Superposition may well be an epistemic/mental state: a symbolic representation of uncertainty.

It's just a representation of the degree of freedom of the variables.
Dimebag wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:10 pm however, as far as we know, it’s not possible in the macro scale.
It sure is.

Instead of saying "my cat is either in the kitchen or on the balcony", I say "my cat is both in the kitchen and on the balcony".

Irrespective of which way I express my epistemic state, I am uncertain about the location of my cat until I observe it.

At which point my uncertainty collapses into one of the possible options.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Terrapin Station »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:21 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:49 pm You're saying that illuminating the power light and the signal or information or whatever you want to call it going to the monitor are the same thing?
He is saying that everything is information.

It's the view of physical information / digital physics / digital philosophy.
It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)
Skepdick
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:16 pm It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)
Isn't that the usual way all ontology is conceptualised?

THE state of affairs.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Terrapin Station »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:17 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:16 pm It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)
Isn't that the usual way all ontology is conceptualised?

THE state of affairs.
No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.
Skepdick
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.
The typical use of the word "state" in physics and computer science is the configuration of the system at a particular point in time.

There's noting unconventional here. The crux is in the use of the term "the".

THE state. Implies there's only one.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by Terrapin Station »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:28 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.
The typical use of the word "state" in physics and computer science is the configuration of the system at a particular point in time.

There's noting unconventional here. The crux is in the use of the term "the".

THE state. Implies there's only one.
First, what does your comment above have to do with what you quoted from me and are apparently responding to?
DPMartin
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:08 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:19 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:24 pm
I am not talking about measuring time. I am talking about time.
yea but proving time exists is like trying recreate the wheel, what's the point? all living things are aware of time in one fashion or another, so it would seem the only thing left it to understand its existence, nature, behavior, make up, so on and so forth. like matter or space or energy.
You are talking about the evidence I am talking about the proof.
last I checked evidence proves, speculation proves nothing. all the great thinkers had to have evidence to prove.
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