I don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 amSo you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 amDid you forget what you were talking about?
In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
Things cannot be simultaneous
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
This and that are different states of affair.SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 amI don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 amSo you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 am
Did you forget what you were talking about?
In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 amI don't know what "this" and "that" you're talking about.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:27 amSo you believe that the universe is like this and that, etc.SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 am
Did you forget what you were talking about?
In this universe things can and do happen simultaneously.
But I'm sorry, because we speak different languages, I first didn't understand your point. The universe as a whole can only be in one configuration at a time, while everything is ever changing, there is a "sequence" to that change, yes!
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
Yes.
Don't you think its actually a good idea to base ones interpretations of the "nature of reality/the universe" on what is actually directly perceived?
If you don't ever perceive separate particles/things, why build a theory on it?
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
You basically and mainly perceive photons, gravitons, etc.
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
Don't forget molecules, of gases and solids.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:12 amYou basically and mainly perceive photons, gravitons, etc.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
I have a feeling that what bahman is getting at by saying a system cannot be in two different states at once, is, as an example, my cat can’t be both alive and dead at the same time. Or, my computer can’t be both on and off at the same time. Basically, superposition.
We know superposition is possible in the quantum realm, however, as far as we know, it’s not possible in the macro scale.
If that’s the case, I would tend to agree, IN GENERAL that a system which has individual discrete states which are exclusive, cannot be in more than one state at one time.
Now, that’s not really saying anything amazing, really kind of stating the obvious, but, hey, if it keeps us busy here then why not.
We know superposition is possible in the quantum realm, however, as far as we know, it’s not possible in the macro scale.
If that’s the case, I would tend to agree, IN GENERAL that a system which has individual discrete states which are exclusive, cannot be in more than one state at one time.
Now, that’s not really saying anything amazing, really kind of stating the obvious, but, hey, if it keeps us busy here then why not.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
He is saying that everything is information.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:49 pm You're saying that illuminating the power light and the signal or information or whatever you want to call it going to the monitor are the same thing?
It's the view of physical information / digital physics / digital philosophy.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
We don't actually know that. Superposition may well be an epistemic/mental state: a symbolic representation of uncertainty.
It's just a representation of the degree of freedom of the variables.
It sure is.
Instead of saying "my cat is either in the kitchen or on the balcony", I say "my cat is both in the kitchen and on the balcony".
Irrespective of which way I express my epistemic state, I am uncertain about the location of my cat until I observe it.
At which point my uncertainty collapses into one of the possible options.
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:21 pmHe is saying that everything is information.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:49 pm You're saying that illuminating the power light and the signal or information or whatever you want to call it going to the monitor are the same thing?
It's the view of physical information / digital physics / digital philosophy.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
Isn't that the usual way all ontology is conceptualised?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:16 pm It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)
THE state of affairs.
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:17 pmIsn't that the usual way all ontology is conceptualised?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:16 pm It actually turned out that he was simply telling us that he's going to restrict the term "system" in his usage to something that can only be in one state at a time. (Which would turn out that he'll only use "system" for aspects of elementary particles, or otherwise that he's going to use "state" in some unusually restricted sense.)
THE state of affairs.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
The typical use of the word "state" in physics and computer science is the configuration of the system at a particular point in time.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.
There's noting unconventional here. The crux is in the use of the term "the".
THE state. Implies there's only one.
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Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
First, what does your comment above have to do with what you quoted from me and are apparently responding to?Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:28 pmThe typical use of the word "state" in physics and computer science is the configuration of the system at a particular point in time.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm No. Not all ontology is done by using unconventional definitions and simply reporting what the unusual definitions are.
There's noting unconventional here. The crux is in the use of the term "the".
THE state. Implies there's only one.
Re: Things cannot be simultaneous
last I checked evidence proves, speculation proves nothing. all the great thinkers had to have evidence to prove.bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:08 pmYou are talking about the evidence I am talking about the proof.DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:19 pmyea but proving time exists is like trying recreate the wheel, what's the point? all living things are aware of time in one fashion or another, so it would seem the only thing left it to understand its existence, nature, behavior, make up, so on and so forth. like matter or space or energy.