metaphysics is...

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attofishpi
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:26 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:39 pm Space is memory? ...but wo/man (the beings that invented the concept of TIME) don't understand what time IS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity

"You" are the algorithm. The space (memory) it take to define "you" is... all of your memories.
..dude, U gotta doo betta than that when U DEAL wiv ME.

ME_MOR_Y? wot is YOUR point? (I dont care 4 links)
Advocate
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Belinda post_id=492506 time=1611584133 user_id=12709]
[quote=Skepdick post_id=492335 time=1611509185 user_id=17350]
[quote=attofishpi post_id=492286 time=1611488380 user_id=6293]
Space is memory? ...but wo/man (the beings that invented the concept of TIME) don't understand what time IS?
[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity

"You" are the algorithm. The space (memory) it take to define "you" is... all of your memories.
[/quote]
That is true.If Attofishpi's brain and other memorising etceteras were to be transplanted intact into a donor body then Attofishpi memories would resume seamlessly in the donor body. However the donor body would engender novel short and long term memories in the Attofishpi brain.
[/quote]

This is not a possible thing because the neural connections (connectome) is completely unique from one brain to another. An AI brain designed to simulate an individual's connectome perfectly would still be subject to other primary differences.
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:03 am What 'you', adult human beings, synthesize the idea of 'space' from; is just distance,itself, and, the idea of 'time' from; is just duration, itself.
So where did you synthesize the ideas of "distance" and "duration" from?
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:23 pm An AI brain designed to simulate an individual's connectome perfectly would still be subject to other primary differences.
Would those differences make any difference?

Your brain changes every second. Your brain now isn't the same brain that it was when you were first born.
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:17 am ..dude, U gotta doo betta than that when U DEAL wiv ME.

ME_MOR_Y? wot is YOUR point? (I dont care 4 links)
Space is the quantization of memory.

Bigger, more complex algorithm require more memory -> they require more space!
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:05 am LOL Creation (of systems) is ALREADY Truly WELL UNDERSTOOD. Well by some of 'us' that is.
You could simply say that you are a Posthumanist and spare us the verbal diarrhoea.
Belinda
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Belinda »

Advocate wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:23 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:15 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:26 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity

"You" are the algorithm. The space (memory) it take to define "you" is... all of your memories.
That is true.If Attofishpi's brain and other memorising etceteras were to be transplanted intact into a donor body then Attofishpi memories would resume seamlessly in the donor body. However the donor body would engender novel short and long term memories in the Attofishpi brain.
This is not a possible thing because the neural connections (connectome) is completely unique from one brain to another. An AI brain designed to simulate an individual's connectome perfectly would still be subject to other primary differences.
Sure it is impossible as a practical exercise!

I have described a particular thought experiment which is designed to indicate that self = memories, and that memories normally are cumulative. The ontology that applies is neutral monism.
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:42 pm The ontology that applies is neutral monism.
Ha! Neutral monism.

I like that! So non-committal
Belinda
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Belinda »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:42 pm
Advocate wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:23 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:15 pm
That is true.If Attofishpi's brain and other memorising etceteras were to be transplanted intact into a donor body then Attofishpi memories would resume seamlessly in the donor body. However the donor body would engender novel short and long term memories in the Attofishpi brain.
This is not a possible thing because the neural connections (connectome) is completely unique from one brain to another. An AI brain designed to simulate an individual's connectome perfectly would still be subject to other primary differences.
Sure it is impossible as a practical exercise!

I have described a particular thought experiment which is designed to indicate that self = memories, and that memories normally are cumulative. The ontology that applies is neutral monism.

If, on the other hand the experiment were done with an artificial intelligence machine the transfer of a given software into a given hardware would be similar . However the difference would be that the applicable ontology in the case of an artificial intelligence info- transfer the ontology that applies is materialism(physicalism).
Belinda
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Belinda »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:44 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:42 pm The ontology that applies is neutral monism.
Ha! Neutral monism.

I like that! So non-committal
The best scientists are committed to neutral monism. I also.
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:49 pm The best scientists are committed to neutral monism. I also.
Non-committal commitment!

Paradoxically delicious too!
Belinda
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Belinda »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:50 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:49 pm The best scientists are committed to neutral monism. I also.
Non-committal commitment!

Paradoxically delicious too!
Quantity of aspects does not imply loss of quality in any one aspect..
Skepdick
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Skepdick »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:58 pm Quantity of aspects does not imply loss of quality in any one aspect..
Absolutely. I am perfectly fine with "less is more"
Belinda
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Belinda »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:00 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:58 pm Quantity of aspects does not imply loss of quality in any one aspect..
Absolutely. I am perfectly fine with "less is more"
What I mean is

Of set [ABCDEF] each member has qualities pqrs and t. These qualities of each member are the same when the set is enlarged by GHIJ and K.

The set I have in mind is nature which we may presume has infinite number of members. Each member has mental and physical qualities.

Unless one is a believer in panpsychism it is hard to credit a stone with mental quality. This is an objection to neutral monism.

However neutral monism or especially dual aspect monism are useful in a practical , political, and moral sense.
Advocate
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Re: metaphysics is...

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=492516 time=1611587647 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=492508 time=1611584602 user_id=15238]
An AI brain designed to simulate an individual's connectome perfectly would still be subject to other primary differences.
[/quote]
Would those differences make any difference?

Your brain changes every second. Your brain now isn't the same brain that it was when you were first born.
[/quote]

The way a biological brain changes is fundamentally different than they way a mechanical, or whatever, one would, the cumulative nature of which means they are fundamentally different substrates. Likewise the idea of transferring any particular mind to any other brain. The mind is substrate-dependent, individually and universally. We are firmly and fundamentally embodied beings and only a gradual persistent change of state can meaningfully alter that status.
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