Noumenon

[raw_thought]

Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

[Impenitent]

phenomena occur in time and space... the noumenon cannot be known

-Imp

[raw_thought]

But why is it timeless? Just because one does not know something does not mean it is timeless.

[raw_thought]

Your answer is like answering the question, " Why does the earth go around the sun ?" with " it goes around the sun because it is a planet that goes around the sun." I know the definitions of neumenon and phenomenon. I am asking why is the neumenon timeless not for the definition of neumenon.

[raw_thought]

Suppose I do not know that Waterloo occurred in 1815, does that mean that Waterloo is timeless and never occurred in 1815 or any other time?

[Ginkgo]

Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

The only thing I can think of is that the noumenon is universal and therefore transcends time and space, a bit like Plato's Forms.

[Impenitent]

Your answer is like answering the question, " Why does the earth go around the sun ?" with " it goes around the sun because it is a planet that goes around the sun." I know the definitions of neumenon and phenomenon. I am asking why is the neumenon timeless not for the definition of neumenon.

kant says it cannot be known

if it were a phenomenon, it (the impression of it) would occur in time and space...

noumenon leave no impression

waterloo was recorded in 1973

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85yMOPKR94M

-Imp

[raw_thought]

Yes! I know the definition of neumenon! I am not asking for its definition. I am asking why is it considered timeless.

[raw_thought]

Your answer is, it is timeless because it is timeless. Not what I am after.

[raw_thought]

You wrote, "kant says it cannot be known if it were a phenomenon, it (the impression of it) would occur in time and space...
ME; Yes I know that.
You wrote; noumenon leave no impression
ME, OK I agree. So anything that is not experienced is eternal and timeless?
You wrote, "waterloo was recorded in 1973" I just got the joke , I am talking about the battle. But sure the analogy still works with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj_9CiNkkn4 So if Abba had never recorded their song it would not have been written in 1973?
Me: So if Waterloo was never written down as happening in 1815, it did not happen in 1815 and was in some eternal timeless world like Plato's forms?

[raw_thought]

BTW My fiancé loves that tune!

[raw_thought]

I'm more of a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jShMQw2H2cM kind of guy!

[Impenitent]

the talking heads should never go on a cruise

anything that is not experienced cannot be known... (whether or not anything that is experienced can be known is another question)

ever seen Bill and Ted's excellent adventure?

-Imp

[raw_thought]

I am not asking if the neumenon can be known. I am asking why did Kant and others think it is timeless? Actually that seems to be knowing something about it ( that it is timeless ).

[Ginkgo]

Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

The only thing I can think of is that the noumenon is universal and therefore transcends time and space, a bit like Plato's Forms.