SELF

So what's really going on?

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Luxin
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Luxin
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Advocate
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Re: SELF

Post by Advocate »

Self is individuation. As an embodied being you have a particular perspective that is not shared by any other mind. Perspective, self, ego, consciousness, awareness, are all variations on the same theme.
Dimebag
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Re: SELF

Post by Dimebag »

Self is an identity structure, built up over the course of the lifetime. I imagine it a little like a tree, with branches pertaining to changeable aspects of the self, such as likes/dislikes/hobbies, responsibilities like work and family identity aspects, then more core elements which form the “trunk” which relate to the physical and mental structure of having a body with a sense of agency and being able to think, and then the root, which pertains to the deepest aspect which is purely the sense of being a point of view, with a sense of being, here ness, is ness, or similar, the sense “I am”. All of this differentiates the consciousness, acting as a lens in which to view things from. Yet the lens also appears in consciousness, and so the distinction between self and consciousness is artificial.
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waechter418
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Re: SELF

Post by waechter418 »

I perceive Self as an inter/extrapolation dynamic that may manifest as Atman, as well as personal* Self (also known as Ego) - and various in-betweens.

* Lat: persona = mask of actor
Dimebag
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Re: SELF

Post by Dimebag »

The self seems to hide in the unexamined. Yet it seems wherever you examine within experience, you find no subject, only experience.

Though at some point, it seems to invert, self is found everywhere, in the sounds, in the felt bodily sensations, in the recognition of objects. It’s very subtle.

The self is both nowhere and everywhere, nothing and everything.

This would seem to address the subject object division, which, it would seem, is an illusory separation. But this can’t just be understood by reading, thinking or deduction, it must be examined and known directly.
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Re: SELF

Post by Dimebag »

The self is like a reflection after whatever arises, an impression back to an imaginary central point or source, like an echo of the original sensation designating ownership.

If there is just seeing, a reflection back to the source creates a seer.

It is very subtle, the sense of self, which is usually overlooked and taken for granted.

At first, the sense of self is solid, that of the mind and body.

But then, it is noticed that whatever arises also passes, and yet the sense of “you” still remain, in the form of a watcher, separate from experiences.

This is the very illusion of self which will be seen to be smoke and mirrors.

When one notices this watcher state, it seems like it is separate from that which it watches. Yet, this sense of watching always coincides with the watched. This division is an artificial one. The sense of being a subject to which objects arise. Somehow, the watcher itself can be seen through, as it arises with the phenomena, but can only be known after the fact.

Once it is known, it is already known as a knower, as a separate self.

So it seems the illusory self also arises in response to knowledge. As knowledge arises, the self sits at its root.

Once this separation is seen through, does this mean that no knowledge arises? With no knower can anything be known?
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waechter418
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Re: SELF

Post by waechter418 »

To Hindus Atman is the first principle, the true self of an individual.
Others assume that the individual (Lat: undivided) contains All.
Last Word
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Re: SELF

Post by Last Word »

Fundamentally, what is there but Self?

Remove Self from the world (reality) and what is left?
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Dontaskme
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Re: SELF

Post by Dontaskme »

Last Word wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:30 pm Fundamentally, what is there but Self?

Remove Self from the world (reality) and what is left?
There is no Self because there is no other than Self.

So even the removal is impossible.

Self cannot experience it's own presence or absence. And this is why there is much confusion within the apparent philosophizing philosophy of Self Realisation.

.
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Re: SELF

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Dontaskme post_id=503548 time=1616406754 user_id=12017]
[quote="Last Word" post_id=503509 time=1616365834 user_id=21669]
Fundamentally, what is there but Self?

Remove Self from the world (reality) and what is left?
[/quote]

There is no Self because there is no other than Self.

So even the removal is impossible.

Self cannot experience it's own presence or absence. And this is why there is much confusion within the apparent philosophizing philosophy of Self Realisation.

.
[/quote]

Self can Only experience it's own presence, and by logical extension, absence.
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Dontaskme
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Re: SELF

Post by Dontaskme »

Advocate wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:46 pm
Self can Only experience it's own presence, and by logical extension, absence.
No, not really, because there is only SELF ...SELF is not an experience. The concept 'experience' is an illusory appearance within SELF and is not the actual SELF itself - which can never be an experience.

SELF is neither present nor absent. . which is just another concept for Self is neither alive or dead...SELF is the emptiness in which all 'experiences' come and go, like emotions, feelings, thought's, sensations, colours, etc...



.
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Re: SELF

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Dontaskme post_id=503739 time=1616495732 user_id=12017]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503594 time=1616424391 user_id=15238]

Self can Only experience it's own presence, and by logical extension, absence.
[/quote]

No, not really, because there is only SELF ...SELF is not an experience. The concept 'experience' is an illusory appearance within SELF and is not the actual SELF itself - which can never be an experience.

SELF is neither present nor absent. . which is just another concept for Self is neither alive or dead...SELF is the emptiness in which all 'experiences' come and go, like emotions, feelings, thought's, sensations, colours, etc...
[/quote]

You just made that shit up. There are no a priori things. There is no soul stuff through which material stuff is moderated. Experience is an instance of self. Experience is self. The only difference is the scale that matters for the occasion.

If it happens in your brain, it's part of you. I give your body selfness as You, even if you do not.
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Dontaskme
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Re: SELF

Post by Dontaskme »

Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:15 pm
You just made that shit up. There are no a priori things. There is no soul stuff through which material stuff is moderated. Experience is an instance of self. Experience is self. The only difference is the scale that matters for the occasion.

If it happens in your brain, it's part of you. I give your body selfness as You, even if you do not.
An experience does not experience. There is only the experience.
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Re: SELF

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Dontaskme post_id=503757 time=1616505827 user_id=12017]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503754 time=1616505342 user_id=15238]

You just made that shit up. There are no a priori things. There is no soul stuff through which material stuff is moderated. Experience is an instance of self. Experience is self. The only difference is the scale that matters for the occasion.

If it happens in your brain, it's part of you. I give your body selfness as You, even if you do not.
[/quote]

An experience does not experience. There is only the experience.
[/quote]

That's an imaginary distinction. If you separate self from experience there's nothing left. They cannot exist on their own They're different aspects of the Same thing, not different things.
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