What is an Atheist?

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TheVisionofEr
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What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

One who does not believe in the Good. The Good is a speculative notion derived on the basis of the empirical observation of the better. The better is the claim that something or some situation or subject matter has or will be improved in some case. For instance, it is claimed that the principle of habeas corpus improves the human orders in which it is in power. Or, that reading and the art of reading are an improvement over illiteracy or the so-called, teleologically, pre-literate peoples. Or, that the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere carburetor-run engines of the last century. And such like.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by RCSaunders »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm... the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere corroborator-run engines of the last century. ...
Where can I get one of those, "corroborator-run engine," cars. Are they like collaborator-run engines? [Just kidding!] I think you mean, "carburetor."
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:39 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm... the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere corroborator-run engines of the last century. ...
Where can I get one of those, "corroborator-run engine," cars. Are they like collaborator-run engines? [Just kidding!] I think you mean, "carburetor."
Thanks. The spell corrector algorithm is no "smart."
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.
commonsense
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by commonsense »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.
Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.

Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.

If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification). Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

commonsense wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pm
TheVisionofEr wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.
Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.

Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.

If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification). Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.
Well, if we follow very modest scientific practice shouldn’t we define our terms? On the other hand, maybe “god” is meant to be a common sense or vernacular term?

God in technical usage means about the same as Good in the sense I’ve laid out above. Or, at least, that is its basic origin out of experience prior to some modifications by scientific or dialogical thinkers.
Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.
This is just a verbal issue. Cicero says, for example, what the Greeks meant by the gods is the ego arbiter, (or, perhaps, the object of it). Which is to say something like what was thematized as the conscience by the Catholics and so is still spoken of in the secular or technological world.
Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
I don’t think so, they deny the existence of the Good and call it illusion. Although, in tacit contradiction to this, Dawkins, who calls himself an atheist, wrote in his most famous book that one must “revolt” against the “selfish gene.”He seems to suggest, then, some magic power “beyond” mere objective nature can save civilization. That power is perhaps the power to derive the Good or God belonging to the human conscience.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

mistake
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TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

delete, duplicate
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Sculptor
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Sculptor »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Not off to a good start here.

It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.

By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Not off to a good start here.

It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.

By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
I don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason. Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit. For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution. The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.

In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.

It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.
The best unpersuasion is to provide sound counter arguments which you provided none.
Age
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Age »

commonsense wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pm
TheVisionofEr wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.
Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.

Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.

If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification).
But the actual point of a 'believer' is, they do not need verification at all. When something is believed to be true, then there is absolutely nothing in the whole Universe that could override this belief.

On a side note, even the belief that God cannot be verified cannot be overridden. These believers will believe this even without verification.
commonsense wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pm Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Sculptor »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Not off to a good start here.

It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.

By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
I don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason.
The idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.
Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit.
So Catholic bad; other theist good?
For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution.
Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.
The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.
Nature is nature.

In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.
Your reasoning power is faulty.

It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
Since the Bible is a litany of contradictions, and misconceptions only a fool would accept it as "revealed text".
The only chance of using the bible as "communicating with the divine" were if you were hit on the head with a bible dropped from a ten storey window.
TheVisionofEr
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by TheVisionofEr »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:53 am
TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 am

Not off to a good start here.

It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.

By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
I don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason.
The idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.
Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit.
So Catholic bad; other theist good?
For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution.
Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.
The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.
Nature is nature.

In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.
Your reasoning power is faulty.

It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
Since the Bible is a litany of contradictions, and misconceptions only a fool would accept it as "revealed text".
The only chance of using the bible as "communicating with the divine" were if you were hit on the head with a bible dropped from a ten storey window.
The idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.

I don’t know what this comment refers to.

So Catholic bad; other theist good?
I don’t know why you would conclude that.
Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.
All Christianity stems from the combined life of the Greek and Latin Churches, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox. Theology in England after Henry the Eighth broke from Rome didn’t start from zero.
Nature is nature.
Childish apodictic blather. All our concepts are historical, they have evolved like our bodies, and are the product of centuries of discussion. Including that of nature.

I give you a proof. Nature does not mean green stuff and primordial forests and beautiful stones in contradistinction to the human built world and to the poetic life of the sage, as it does in China. Which is to say the idea one gets by birth in China. Nature does not mean simply by birth, it has a peculiar and artificial meaning in the west, and most of all in western science which is the current form of philosophy now popular.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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