What is an Atheist?
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
What is an Atheist?
One who does not believe in the Good. The Good is a speculative notion derived on the basis of the empirical observation of the better. The better is the claim that something or some situation or subject matter has or will be improved in some case. For instance, it is claimed that the principle of habeas corpus improves the human orders in which it is in power. Or, that reading and the art of reading are an improvement over illiteracy or the so-called, teleologically, pre-literate peoples. Or, that the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere carburetor-run engines of the last century. And such like.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: What is an Atheist?
Where can I get one of those, "corroborator-run engine," cars. Are they like collaborator-run engines? [Just kidding!] I think you mean, "carburetor."TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm... the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere corroborator-run engines of the last century. ...
-
- Posts: 12634
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: What is an Atheist?
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
Thanks. The spell corrector algorithm is no "smart."RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:39 amWhere can I get one of those, "corroborator-run engine," cars. Are they like collaborator-run engines? [Just kidding!] I think you mean, "carburetor."TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm... the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere corroborator-run engines of the last century. ...
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
I'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 amDid not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
-
- Posts: 5182
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pmI'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 amDid not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.
If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification). Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pmPerhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pmI'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.
If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification). Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
Well, if we follow very modest scientific practice shouldn’t we define our terms? On the other hand, maybe “god” is meant to be a common sense or vernacular term?Perhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.
God in technical usage means about the same as Good in the sense I’ve laid out above. Or, at least, that is its basic origin out of experience prior to some modifications by scientific or dialogical thinkers.
This is just a verbal issue. Cicero says, for example, what the Greeks meant by the gods is the ego arbiter, (or, perhaps, the object of it). Which is to say something like what was thematized as the conscience by the Catholics and so is still spoken of in the secular or technological world.Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.
I don’t think so, they deny the existence of the Good and call it illusion. Although, in tacit contradiction to this, Dawkins, who calls himself an atheist, wrote in his most famous book that one must “revolt” against the “selfish gene.”He seems to suggest, then, some magic power “beyond” mere objective nature can save civilization. That power is perhaps the power to derive the Good or God belonging to the human conscience.Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
mistake
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
delete, duplicate
Re: What is an Atheist?
Not off to a good start here.
It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.
By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
I don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason. Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit. For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution. The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 amNot off to a good start here.
It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.
By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.
It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
-
- Posts: 12634
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: What is an Atheist?
The best unpersuasion is to provide sound counter arguments which you provided none.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pmI'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 amDid not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
Re: What is an Atheist?
But the actual point of a 'believer' is, they do not need verification at all. When something is believed to be true, then there is absolutely nothing in the whole Universe that could override this belief.commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pmPerhaps you are finding VA’s post to be undiplomatic or laced with subtle ad hom’s. Nonetheless the point remains and awaits response: an atheist lacks the belief that god(s) exist, but does not necessarily lack any other beliefs.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:14 pmI'm unpersuaded that anything you write is in good faith or serious.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:59 am
Did not expect any one to be so rhetorical to the extreme in wanting to change the normative definition, in this case, the generally accepted definition of 'atheist'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Worst still the 'Good' is with a capital "G", i.e. as in Plato's illusion of the Good.
Your claim that an atheist does not believe in good goes beyond a belief in god(s). An atheist can believe in good without believing in god(s), for the absence of one belief does not necessarily preclude another belief out of hand.
If you are attempting to equate all that is good to God, then the claim above is unjustifiable because the existence of God cannot be verified (believers need no verification).
On a side note, even the belief that God cannot be verified cannot be overridden. These believers will believe this even without verification.
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:14 pm Whatever good is, it is an attribute that can be experienced by atheists.
Re: What is an Atheist?
The idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 amI don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 amNot off to a good start here.
It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.
By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.
So Catholic bad; other theist good?Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit.
Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution.
Nature is nature.The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.
Your reasoning power is faulty.
In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.
Since the Bible is a litany of contradictions, and misconceptions only a fool would accept it as "revealed text".
It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
The only chance of using the bible as "communicating with the divine" were if you were hit on the head with a bible dropped from a ten storey window.
-
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:59 pm
Re: What is an Atheist?
Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:53 amThe idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 amI don't see any sense in what you are saying. A theist by no means renounces reason.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 am
Not off to a good start here.
It is the Theist that rejects the good, obviously.
By washing their hands of reason, evidence, and by abandoning good sense to fall into the illusion of belief, a theist terminates their independence of though to allow the purveyors of religion to do all the moral thinking for them.So Catholic bad; other theist good?Generally they only ward off the peculiar working out of the current Catholic system, but not its spirit.Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.For instance, Darwin took on this position for a time, after contemplating the impossibility of God producing the cruelty of evolution.Nature is nature.The American formula is, so far as I understand them, essential theism. "Nature's God." Which is to say, God sets His nature, or natural world, going and stands aside. Americanism is pure theism.Your reasoning power is faulty.
In the Catholic tradition faith or belief is understood as super-rational. This is wholly unlike Judaism and Islam. Catholics begin with reason and move up to faith. As in the science of God, theology. The "belief" indicates that reason has limits. Reason can never be sure, it requires something more. It only has what is compelling to it, what makes sense to it, not the ultimate release of trust in goodness.Since the Bible is a litany of contradictions, and misconceptions only a fool would accept it as "revealed text".
It's true belief is also said in another important sense, which is in Reveled text. That arguing from scripture is meaningful because it is received from what is good. That it is not of human invention or discovery, but from communication with the divine.
The only chance of using the bible as "communicating with the divine" were if you were hit on the head with a bible dropped from a ten storey window.
The idea that you can believe without evidence is an abdication of reason.
I don’t know what this comment refers to.
I don’t know why you would conclude that.So Catholic bad; other theist good?
All Christianity stems from the combined life of the Greek and Latin Churches, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox. Theology in England after Henry the Eighth broke from Rome didn’t start from zero.Darwin was NEVER a Catholic.
Childish apodictic blather. All our concepts are historical, they have evolved like our bodies, and are the product of centuries of discussion. Including that of nature.Nature is nature.
I give you a proof. Nature does not mean green stuff and primordial forests and beautiful stones in contradistinction to the human built world and to the poetic life of the sage, as it does in China. Which is to say the idea one gets by birth in China. Nature does not mean simply by birth, it has a peculiar and artificial meaning in the west, and most of all in western science which is the current form of philosophy now popular.
Last edited by TheVisionofEr on Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.