What is an Atheist?

So what's really going on?

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Dontaskme
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Dontaskme »

bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:12 amwhat is reality as it is?
Here is another way of seeing the answer to the question.


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popeye1945
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by popeye1945 »

Reality is a biological readout in much the same way that one might feed information into an adding machine and expect a totality of the sums. Spinoza stated that the body is the mind's idea, for it is through the body that the reactive mind is conscious, and like other objects it's out there in the world. Objects can be nothing but the energies that manifest themselves through the body to be known to reactive consciousness as the changes they affect in biology/body as object. What is an atheist, well, an atheist is someone who doesn't close the door on wonder, for when one attributes the physical world to a supernatural source that is not manifest and is not to be questioned that door of wonder is sharply closed. It's a bit like a willful or voluntary lobotomy and would be considered a mental illness if it wasn't so widespread, you just can't institutionalize that much of the population. To quote Albert, "It is time for humanity to grow up."
Last edited by popeye1945 on Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What is an Atheist?

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popeye1945 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am Reality is a biological readout in much the same way that one might feed information into an adding machine and expect a totality of the sums. Spinoza stated that the body is the mind's idea, for it is through the body that the reactive mind is conscious, and like other objects it's out there in the world. Objects can be nothing but energies that manifest themselves through the body to be known to reactive consciousness as the changes they affect in the said biology/body as object. What is an atheist, well, an atheist is someone who doesn't close the door on wonder, for when one attributes the physical world to a supernatural source that is not manifest and is not to be questioned that door of wonder is sharply closed. It's a bit like a willful or voluntary lobotomy and would be considered a mental illness if it wasn't so widespread, you just can't institutionalize that much of the population. To quote Albert, "It is time for humanity to grow up."
Well said.
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by popeye1945 »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:52 am
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am Reality is a biological readout in much the same way that one might feed information into an adding machine and expect a totality of the sums. Spinoza stated that the body is the mind's idea, for it is through the body that the reactive mind is conscious, and like other objects it's out there in the world. Objects can be nothing but energies that manifest themselves through the body to be known to reactive consciousness as the changes they affect in the said biology/body as object. What is an atheist, well, an atheist is someone who doesn't close the door on wonder, for when one attributes the physical world to a supernatural source that is not manifest and is not to be questioned that door of wonder is sharply closed. It's a bit like a willful or voluntary lobotomy and would be considered a mental illness if it wasn't so widespread, you just can't institutionalize that much of the population. To quote Albert, "It is time for humanity to grow up."
Well said.
Dontaskme,

THANKS!!
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Sculptor
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Sculptor »

TheVisionofEr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 pm One who does not believe in the Good.
Nope.
You got off to a very bad start there.
The Good is a speculative notion derived on the basis of the empirical observation of the better. The better is the claim that something or some situation or subject matter has or will be improved in some case.
No the good is not an empirical observation. Good is a judgement values. Good is that which is pleasing to yourself. A thing that is good for you may well be bad for another. Evil or bad is that which does not please you. But once again what may no please you may please another.
This thread is another empirical observation that religion and belief is damaging to people's minds. And it simply reinforces the thought that religion is NOT good. Though you may think it so.
For instance, it is claimed that the principle of habeas corpus improves the human orders in which it is in power.
The what?
WHere?
Evidence please.
Or, that reading and the art of reading are an improvement over illiteracy or the so-called, teleologically, pre-literate peoples. Or, that the fuel injection systems of the modern automobiles is superior to the mere carburetor-run engines of the last century. And such like.
But all of these things can be argued against very simply. Fuel injectors make people go faster and faster cars are more dangerous and use more fuel which contributes to global warming.
The advent of writing in most cultures has led to a tragic loss of cultural identity with the imposition of a dominant culture, and has facilitated modernisation and exploitation of the earth's limited resources.
As for habeus corpus you might want to review your comments, as the meaning of the phrase "improve human orders" does not make sense.

But worst of all absolutely none of this has anything to do with Atheism.
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by bobmax »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:33 am There are only concepts known, known by no one, because ''things'' cannot know they are KNOWN. An aware consciousness does not exist as an object of it's own knowing. Knowledge, aka conceptual objects are a projection only within what is always this fundamental empty awareness - as it is.
If you affirm that "An aware consciousness does not exist as an object of it's own knowing" where does this affirmation come from?

Do you know what cannot be known?

Or is this statement of yours an act of faith?
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Dontaskme »

bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:13 pmIf you affirm that "An aware consciousness does not exist as an object of it's own knowing" where does this affirmation come from?
The affirmation is known - here now - nowhere. There is nowhere else but herenow - nowhere.
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:13 pmDo you know what cannot be known?
There is nothing that cannot be known, even the concept 'nothing' is known. Here now - All that is known, are concepts. There is no knowledge of an unknown known.
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:13 pmOr is this statement of yours an act of faith?
I've no idea what you mean here, sorry.
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by bobmax »

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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by bobmax »

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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by bobmax »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:24 pm Here now - All that is known, are concepts.
Hence also the consciousness, if it is known.

But you just said it can't be an object of knowledge, so it's not a concept.

Do you know the unknowable?
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Dontaskme »

bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm

Hence also the consciousness, if it is known.
Consciousness is known as a concept in this conception.

Conception implies there is a knowing. Implies there is a formless form Informing.
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pmBut you just said it can't be an object of knowledge, so it's not a concept.

Do you know the unknowable?
Knowing is not an object.

Knowing is the only knowing there is, it's a verb.

What is not known, will eventually become known, but was is unknowable can never be known...because there is no knowledge of no knowledge, there is only knowledge of knowledge.
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by bobmax »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pm
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm Hence also the consciousness, if it is known.
Consciousness is known as a concept in this conception.

Conception implies there is a knowing. Implies there is a formless form Informing.
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pmBut you just said it can't be an object of knowledge, so it's not a concept.

Do you know the unknowable?
Knowing is not an object.

Knowing is the only knowing there is, it's a verb.

What is not known, will eventually become known, but was is unknowable can never be known...because there is no knowledge of no knowledge, there is only knowledge of knowledge.
Are you sure there is knowing apart from anything known?
That is, that awareness knows itself through simple conception?

On what basis do you state this?
Why did you experience it?

But to experience it, it is necessary to avoid any concept.

Basically, one must consciously stop one's mind.

Have you ever tried this?

If you've never done this, I strongly advise you against trying!

It is very difficult to do this.
But once it happened to me.
And after so many years I freeze at the memory. Other than awareness of conceiving...
It is the most hideous abyss of any imaginable.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by Dontaskme »

bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:57 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pm
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm Hence also the consciousness, if it is known.
Consciousness is known as a concept in this conception.

Conception implies there is a knowing. Implies there is a formless form Informing.
bobmax wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pmBut you just said it can't be an object of knowledge, so it's not a concept.

Do you know the unknowable?
Knowing is not an object.

Knowing is the only knowing there is, it's a verb.

What is not known, will eventually become known, but was is unknowable can never be known...because there is no knowledge of no knowledge, there is only knowledge of knowledge.
Are you sure there is knowing apart from anything known?
That is, that awareness knows itself through simple conception?

On what basis do you state this?
Why did you experience it?

But to experience it, it is necessary to avoid any concept.

Basically, one must consciously stop one's mind.

Have you ever tried this?

If you've never done this, I strongly advise you against trying!

It is very difficult to do this.
But once it happened to me.
And after so many years I freeze at the memory. Other than awareness of conceiving...
It is the most hideous abyss of any imaginable.
I recall we've had this conversation before Bob

That said, you are welcome to your version of the Nihilistic universe.

But it's not mine. My Nihilistic version of myself aka the universe, is one of bliss, not a hideous abyss. :D

In answer to all your questions...Direct experience.
seeds
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by seeds »

commonsense wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:08 pm
seeds wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:39 pm
uwot wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:37 pm Oh seeds, not you too. I take it you haven't read my last post, two above yours:

Those are the three basic positions. It is pointless quibbling about definitions, but to be clear I don't believe there is a god and, in my language, that makes me an atheist...
In light of the mythological nonsense handed down to us from ancient minds via the world's religions (combined with a lack of any verifiable evidence for the existence of God), I completely understand why you would call yourself an atheist (of the "second kind" per your list).

However, I cannot help but ask that if you do not believe that the universe is the product of some higher level of intelligence, then what is the alternative?

And if you repeat to me what you have admitted several times in the past, that you haven't completely ruled-out Berkeley's concept of God, then you're simply not the type of hardcore atheist (i.e., the third option in your list) to which my comments are directed.

Again, if you honestly believe that there is no higher intelligence involved in the creation of the universe, then don't be wishy-washy in your answer. Just tell me what you think the alternative might be?
_______
The universe was not created. It has always been. It is ordered only in the minds of those who say so. In reality the universe is a patternless cacophony of chaos.
So, there was no "Big Bang"?

I suspect that the only reason you made that statement is so that you could use the phrase:

"...patternless cacophony of chaos..." :D

I like it, but it's nonsense.
_______
seeds
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Re: What is an Atheist?

Post by seeds »

commonsense wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:35 am
seeds wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:59 pm _______

"...What is an Atheist?..."

There's is no denying the fact that most atheists are very intelligent (which is why they became atheists in the first place).

However, according to this (perhaps over-used) quote from one of the founding fathers of quantum physics...
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” - Werner Heisenberg
In which case, an atheist (especially a hardcore atheist) is someone who simply hasn't quite made it to the bottom of the glass yet.
_______
I’m not an atheist, but I object nonetheless to a quote that portrays God as the dregs of a liquid or an ooze. The quote does nothing to justify a belief in the Existence of God. It only asserts that God exists as a precipitate.
Apparently, metaphor is not your cuppa tea.
_______
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