Page 4 of 4

Re: Form is Binding Space

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:21 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Skepdick wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:04 pm
TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:00 pm It’s more difficult with a human than with wax. The “philosophical zombie” question doesn't apply to wax. Wax has no life. It has no specific normal shape.
Ironic. Because "human" needs not have any particular shape either if one adopts a cybernetics viewpoint.

Forms are over layed with forms, humanity has a different internal form than a cybernetic construct.

To borrow some ideas from present-day sci-fi (Altered Carbon) if consciousness is what makes you "you", and your body is just a disposable sleeve then you can't even put your finger on what a "human" is.

You certainly can't define it. All you can do is recognise it, only you don't recognise "human" - you recognise "self"

You assume the patterns, and the patterns which composed the patterns of man are different than those which compose the cybernetic structure. Forms are composed of forms.

Re: Form is Binding Space

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:24 pm
by Skepdick
TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:20 pm From the point of view of the view that the human is an animal endowed with reason, I suppose the test would be conversation. The degree to which the being could understand us would indicate human or non-human. Rational or non-rational in the modest sense of does he understand at all.
Then you can't appeal to the philosophical zombie argument, nor its cousin: the Chinese room argument.

You are appealing to the Turing test. If you can be convinced - then it must be human.

Even if you were convincingly fooled by a sophisticated AI.

Re: Form is Binding Space

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:26 pm
by Eodnhoj7
TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:03 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:46 pm
TheVisionofEr wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:17 pm A man can have his arm cut off and still be a man. The form remains even with the change of shape.
The form is a variation of the prior form, thus what we see between the form of a man, with an arm, and another man, without an arm, is the replication of forms (ie shape of head, erect posture, etc.). The forms may change but there are certain underlying forms which repeat.
So, you admit a form isn't a form only by its shape?
A form variates to another form, with both having underlying common forms. This difference of form results from a thesis/antithesis dichotomy, where any progression of one thesis to another results in a corresponding antithesis as to what something is not. A dog may reflect the antithetical cat, as having common forms, but the difference of (D --> C) always results in an antithesis occuring where the cat simultaneously is not the dog: (D --> (C <-->-D))

Dog and Cat have reoccurring forms, but differentiate therefore always having antithetical components relative to another.

Re: Form is Binding Space

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:29 pm
by Skepdick
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:21 pm Forms are over layed with forms, humanity has a different internal form than a cybernetic construct.
Do you know what a cyborg is?

There are a significant number of people who have artificial hearts.

And limbs, and hearing aids, and digital eyes and various other medical replacements.

Re: Form is Binding Space

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:44 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Skepdick wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:29 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:21 pm Forms are over layed with forms, humanity has a different internal form than a cybernetic construct.
Do you know what a cyborg is?

There are a significant number of people who have artificial hearts.

And limbs, and hearing aids, and digital eyes and various other medical replacements.
There are a significant number of artificial hearts in people as well...the question goes both ways.