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Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:12 pm
by Davyboi
We are just aspects, shards, splinters of the greater consciousness? If we are then we do have free will..if we didn't have free will then how would this greater consciousness learn understand?

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:19 pm
by bahman
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:01 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:58 pm
AlexW wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 am

A thought does not belong to a "you" or a "me" - its much rather the case that "you" and "me" are thoughts.
An experience doesn't belong to anyone either - thus you cannot share a thought and you also cannot share an experience.
Every experience is unique - it arises in/as consciousness/mind, is perfectly free and doesn't belong to "you" (even "you" might think this is the case...)

If a thought would belong to you, then this "you" would have to be in perfect control about its own thoughts and experiences - are "you" in control?
I can consciously control my thoughts. I can give them direction, create them, pause them etc.
So in that case we are just by products of a universe trying to understand itself gain consciousness?
We are not products of universe. We are minds embedded in the universe. Consciousness is the ability of the mind together with free decision and causation.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:37 pm
by Davyboi
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:19 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:01 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:58 pm

I can consciously control my thoughts. I can give them direction, create them, pause them etc.
So in that case we are just by products of a universe trying to understand itself gain consciousness?
We are not products of universe. We are minds embedded in the universe. Consciousness is the ability of the mind together with free decision and causation.
You are absolutely right, but we are beings capable of both thought and physical existing..how many times have we had a thought about doing something, but in reality when we physically put it into action we become aware of the obstacles and challenges that are associated with that thought. hence we obtain knowledge from this learning curve? The universe learns from are mistakes and achievements both in physical and mental consciousness.we are by products.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:23 pm
by bahman
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:37 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:19 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:01 pm

So in that case we are just by products of a universe trying to understand itself gain consciousness?
We are not products of universe. We are minds embedded in the universe. Consciousness is the ability of the mind together with free decision and causation.
You are absolutely right, but we are beings capable of both thought and physical existing..how many times have we had a thought about doing something, but in reality when we physically put it into action we become aware of the obstacles and challenges that are associated with that thought. hence we obtain knowledge from this learning curve? The universe learns from are mistakes and achievements both in physical and mental consciousness.we are by products.
I agree given the definition of products of universe.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 pm
by Davyboi
bahman wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:37 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:19 pm

We are not products of universe. We are minds embedded in the universe. Consciousness is the ability of the mind together with free decision and causation.
You are absolutely right, but we are beings capable of both thought and physical existing..how many times have we had a thought about doing something, but in reality when we physically put it into action we become aware of the obstacles and challenges that are associated with that thought. hence we obtain knowledge from this learning curve? The universe learns from are mistakes and achievements both in physical and mental consciousness.we are by products.
I agree given the definition of products of universe.
What is your opinion on this? Would like another point of view.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:09 pm
by bahman
Davyboi wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 pm
bahman wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:37 pm


You are absolutely right, but we are beings capable of both thought and physical existing..how many times have we had a thought about doing something, but in reality when we physically put it into action we become aware of the obstacles and challenges that are associated with that thought. hence we obtain knowledge from this learning curve? The universe learns from are mistakes and achievements both in physical and mental consciousness.we are by products.
I agree given the definition of products of universe.
What is your opinion on this? Would like another point of view.
I don't think if there is another consistent point of view.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 pm
by Sculptor
waechter418 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:58 pm
All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of Consciousness which exercises its possibilities in order to realise itself.
I do not think I have ANY realising to do.

I very much doubt that "all" my deeds, emotions, thoughts or creeds (whatever the F that is doing in the list), Are expressions towards a state of realisation that I already wake up with each morning effortlessly.

I'm puzzled why you think that might be, and a little worried that this is a reflection of you psychological state of mind.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:48 pm
by waechter418
Sorry to hear that you run out of wrestling partners (perhaps they got tired of your naughty tricks) :)

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:31 pm
by Davyboi
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 pm
waechter418 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:58 pm
All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of Consciousness which exercises its possibilities in order to realise itself.
I do not think I have ANY realising to do.

I very much doubt that "all" my deeds, emotions, thoughts or creeds (whatever the F that is doing in the list), Are expressions towards a state of realisation that I already wake up with each morning effortlessly.

I'm puzzled why you think that might be, and a little worried that this is a reflection of you psychological state of mind.
Explain your thinking please...I need to catch up

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:48 pm
by Davyboi
waechter418 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:48 pm
Sorry to hear that you run out of wrestling partners (perhaps they got tired of your naughty tricks) :)
Play nice please!

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 pm
by Sculptor
Davyboi wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 pm
waechter418 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:58 pm
All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of Consciousness which exercises its possibilities in order to realise itself.
I do not think I have ANY realising to do.

I very much doubt that "all" my deeds, emotions, thoughts or creeds (whatever the F that is doing in the list), Are expressions towards a state of realisation that I already wake up with each morning effortlessly.

I'm puzzled why you think that might be, and a little worried that this is a reflection of you psychological state of mind.
Explain your thinking please...I need to catch up
I think, if you read the post I was responding to, followed by my comments, my thinking is obvious enough.
I'm not sure what you don't understand.
Waetcher made a claim. I think the claim is false for the reasons I give.
He talks of realisation, and asserts that all we do is for that reason.
I already realise I exist. I am a fully realised person. I act because I am already realised would explain things far better than I act so I can realise (his claim).

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:02 am
by Davyboi
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 pm


I do not think I have ANY realising to do.

I very much doubt that "all" my deeds, emotions, thoughts or creeds (whatever the F that is doing in the list), Are expressions towards a state of realisation that I already wake up with each morning effortlessly.

I'm puzzled why you think that might be, and a little worried that this is a reflection of you psychological state of mind.
Explain your thinking please...I need to catch up
I think, if you read the post I was responding to, followed by my comments, my thinking is obvious enough.
I'm not sure what you don't understand.
Waetcher made a claim. I think the claim is false for the reasons I give.
He talks of realisation, and asserts that all we do is for that reason.
I already realise I exist. I am a fully realised person. I act because I am already realised would explain things far better than I act so I can realise (his claim).
Yes we do exist, why we do, or in what state of existence we exist in, is a different discussion..but to say you are a fully realised person is a bold statement. No-one has the answer.

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:04 am
by Sculptor
Davyboi wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:02 am
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:31 pm

Explain your thinking please...I need to catch up
I think, if you read the post I was responding to, followed by my comments, my thinking is obvious enough.
I'm not sure what you don't understand.
Waetcher made a claim. I think the claim is false for the reasons I give.
He talks of realisation, and asserts that all we do is for that reason.
I already realise I exist. I am a fully realised person. I act because I am already realised would explain things far better than I act so I can realise (his claim).
Yes we do exist, why we do, or in what state of existence we exist in, is a different discussion..but to say you are a fully realised person is a bold statement. No-one has the answer.
It's not bold at all.
All you have to do is wake up each morning and there you are.
I wake, I know what to do.
What is your problem?
The thread is not "Why we exist".
What makes you think there could ever be a meaningful answer?

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:11 am
by Davyboi
Sculptor wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:04 am
Davyboi wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:02 am
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 pm

I think, if you read the post I was responding to, followed by my comments, my thinking is obvious enough.
I'm not sure what you don't understand.
Waetcher made a claim. I think the claim is false for the reasons I give.
He talks of realisation, and asserts that all we do is for that reason.
I already realise I exist. I am a fully realised person. I act because I am already realised would explain things far better than I act so I can realise (his claim).
Yes we do exist, why we do, or in what state of existence we exist in, is a different discussion..but to say you are a fully realised person is a bold statement. No-one has the answer.
It's not bold at all.
All you have to do is wake up each morning and there you are.
I wake, I know what to do.
What is your problem?
Well I am not you! When I wake up I question everything.
Quick question for you, throughout your life how many times have you gone to sleep and woke up from a dream, that is so real. That you have questioned yourself that you are actually awake?

Re: proposition (1)

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:09 am
by Dontaskme
Davyboi wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:11 am
Well I am not you! When I wake up I question everything.
Quick question for you, throughout your life how many times have you gone to sleep and woke up from a dream, that is so real. That you have questioned yourself that you are actually awake?

“I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man”

Chuang Tzu